There’s a popular cliché in sport that ‘you’re only as good as your last game’ and, if we are to apply that in Liverpool’s case, then we are simply bloody awful. Whether the players had one eye on Wednesday’s 2nd leg against Manchester City or not, there is no excuse for a performance of that ineptitude. I was particularly disappointed with Kenny Dalglish’s comments on Sunday and Monday morning about the attitude of his players, it speaks volumes for the pressure that the manager no doubt feels he is under at the moment, as every game passes and we fail to win, yet again. You just can’t pass the buck that easily, Kenny, you are all as responsible as each other.
In our last 6 Premier league games we’ve gone from one of the most in-form teams in the country to perhaps one of the most out of form, taking 1 win, 3 draws and 2 defeats from our last 6. Our last win in the league was at home to Newcastle on 30th December 2011. By the time we play in the league again, it will have been over a month since we last won a league match, with our least 3 having ended in defeat on two occasions and a draw in the other. By anybody’s standards, those are poor results. While in some parts Kenny’s comments certainly ring true, the fact of the matter is, the results on Saturday evening has only emphasised a situation which has been apparent to some all season: we simply haven’t improved enough since this time last year.
Our current league record stands at 9 wins, 8 draws and 5 losses. In percentage terms that’s 41% won, 36% drawn and 23% lost. On paper, there is a definite improvement on last season: we’ve won 10% more games than in the same period last season and lost over 15% less. However, that equates to 2 more wins than last year; not a great deal in real terms. Of the 10 defeats we’d suffered during the first 22 games of last season, we’ve lost 5 less but only turned 2 of those into wins, with a further 3 draws than the same period last year. If you’re going to really strip it down, we currently have 9 more points than this time last year, despite bringing in more than £100 million worth of talent. If we were to continue along this path then you can only imagine that the owners would not be too impressed with the returns on their investment, particularly given that almost £60 million of that money will have been spent almost 18 months ago, by that time, and less than half of the talent recruited for that sum (Suarez) has actually shown any promise.
However, having said that, it isn’t really that simple. It’s not like we’ve played poorly all season. Indeed, Saturday afternoon was probably our poorest performance all season – the White Hart Lane fiasco aside – particularly as we were playing the bottom club. The only players, for me, who emerged with even a shred of credit were Bellamy, Skrtel and Reina. Bellamy, as always, ran himself in to the ground (it’s no wonder his knees are knackered). Skrtel, I’ve noticed has a taken a few knocks from some fans but Enrique and Johnson were abysmal and Agger wasn’t much better, while Skrtel was pretty much covering up as many cracks as he could on his own. And whilst Reina made some great saves and did what he could to organise those in front of him, everybody else looked completely bereft of ideas; clueless, directionless and without any kind of clear focus.
As I mentioned earlier, Kenny has since blamed that lack of focus on the upcoming cup semi-final 2nd leg. He has also made it clear that any player who is looking to the future, rather than concentrating on only the next game may well find himself moved on in the summer. At no point does Dalglish take responsibility for this lack of focus. As manager, it is his job to manage all aspects of the team and if he senses for a second that a player’s mind is elsewhere, he has two options: make it clear to the player that he has to focus on one game and one game only – the next one. The alternative is to drop him. I know that a lot of fans will no doubt excuse the manager of any responsibility for this but it is well within his remit and it is his responsibility. As an example of this, back in 2007 Rafa Benitez actually went so far as to ban his squad from even talking about the Chelsea semi in the Champions League. Funnily enough, Liverpool lost the game before the second leg – 2:1 away at Portsmouth – but with a significantly weakened side (Gabriel Paletta, anybody?). Against Bolton there were no such excuses, with the Reds fielding their strongest side, and neither players nor manager should be excused for Saturday’s debacle.
All Saturday’s defeat did though, was further raise awareness to two much wider problems, problems which has pervaded the team all season long: a total lack of creativity and clinical finishing. Because for all of Liverpool’s woes during the Bolton game, we could easily have pulled ourselves back out of that hole if, at 2:1, we’d had something resembling a play-maker, a nippy winger, or – whisper it – a ‘fox in the box’ to bring off the bench. To be fair, I’d make do with a badger in the box at the moment, so low are my expectations of our prowess in front of goal at the present.
But all jokes aside, Liverpool’s attack has truly become something of a joke in the media, after failing to score more than once against the worst Bolton side I’ve ever seen and notching only 24 goals in the league from 22 games. A quick glance at the table shows some pretty embarrassing statistics in that Newcastle, Norwich, Sunderland, Blackburn and now, even Bolton, have all scored more than Liverpool. Perhaps more embarrassing is the fact that Everton have scored only 3 less and I can count on one hand the number of times they’ve played with an actual recognised striker this season (Tim Cahill doesn’t count). For a team that started the season with genuine Champions League aspirations, that just isn’t acceptable. And for that, you can only look to the manager and his staff to take responsibility, both in terms of signings and tactics/training.
Tactically, we’ve had a mixed bag so far. Defensively we’ve been sound – Saturday aside – with Agger and Skrtel being a revelation at the back. But going forward we’ve been found wanting at least 75% of the time. We’ve bossed a fair portion of our games, even against the likes of Manchester City, Arsenal and Manchester United and our passing game is impressive when it’s working. Sadly, we’ve come to resemble the Arsenal side of a few years ago who, for all their fancy-dan build up, couldn’t score a goal to save their lives. At my last count we’d had over 350 shots at goal all season and had scored less than 10% of those chances. A quick glance at the Premier League’s top scorers shows that only Luis Suarez and Craig Bellamy break in to the top 50. When you consider some of the illustrious names who have outscored even our top scorers – Shane Long, Grant Holt, Danny Graham, Heidar Helguson, even Yakubu – you know there are serious problems.
From a fan/amateur football writer’s point of view, a lot of that comes down to the management of the team and the way they’re set up. I have been utterly confused with some of our tactical decisions and substitutions this season. The most confusing aspect is how Andy Carroll is often deployed by himself up front, with a five-man midfield. This is a popular tactic in this day and age and we’ve reaped the benefits in years gone by more than anyone, but for this to work you need your striker to be either a) strong and intelligent or b) quick and intelligent. The c) option is that he will be all of these things, but those strikers are a rare commodity. However, Andy Carroll is perhaps one of the least game-intelligent footballers I’ve ever seen at Liverpool (even more so than Glen Johnson), with flick-on’s going in to no man’s land, badly miss-timing his jumps to meet the ball in the air and constantly failing to get himself in to dangerous areas. Even his strength and aerial ability leave a lot to be desired but surely I can’t be the only one to whom that is clearly apparent?
On the other hand, how many times have we seen decisions taken whereby Stewart Downing is withdrawn (as a few weeks ago) only to be replaced by the very man he should be giving service too, Andy Carroll? We have seen many baffling tactical decisions like this this season that have contributed to poor results.
We’ve seen just as many confusing substitutions too, with the manager often leaving it as late as possible to make a much-needed change and then replacing like-for-like, instead of bringing on an extra striker, or putting another body in midfield. Saturday’s game highlighted a further issue in this respect, in that we rarely use all of our substitutions when that is exactly what we were crying out for: a complete overhaul when we still had the chance of getting something from the game. Going in at 2:1 at the break Kenny should’ve nipped all of our problems in the bud, dragged Adam out from in front of the defence, thrown on another striker (or at least pushed Bellamy up front), replaced Johnson with Kelly and put Henderson out of his misery. Instead, he waited until 15 minutes after we’d gone 3:1 down – and when it had been apparent for at least an hour that is wasn’t working – and took off Maxi and Adam and replaced them with Downing and Kuyt; hardly the dynamic duo to pull us out of the mire. There are numerous examples of tactical faux pa’s and awful use of substitutions but getting tactics/preparations right can only go so far because when that’s all you’ve got on the bench, what can you do?
Which leads me on to the signings of the past 12 months – as has been pointed out all too often this season, Stewart Downing, Jordan Henderson and Andy Carroll have never threatened to even enter 2nd gear. Downing started OK but has been anonymous for the most part. Likewise, Henderson has had some decent performances but he’s never looked like a £16.5 million prospect (contrast his performances with Oxlade-Chamberlain Sunday, for a reference point). As for Andy Carroll… I think the time has finally come to cut the cord and take whatever losses are coming. I’ve tried so hard to back him and prayed that he’d suddenly burst out of his shell and become even a -£15 million striker but it just isn’t ever going to happen; he is ridiculously bereft of technique and ability.
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On Saturday, there were two very starkly contrasted performances from two strikers. On the one hand, you have a £35 million striker labouring embarrassingly against a previously generous Bolton defence, never threatening to impress. At the other end, there was a £4 million striker we let move on in the summer who ran our back 4 ragged and worked like a Trojan for his team. David Ngog may never have been everybody’s cup of tea but he always worked hard and often scored from the bench but what the game showed more than anything is how much Liverpool were screwed over in Carroll’s transfer, as the difference in quality between him and Ngog is minimal, at best, perhaps even leaning in Ngog’s favour.
Some would argue that Charlie Adam has been equally unimpressive but he has contributed to some great performances this season and, at a fraction of the price some of the other signings cost us, he wasn’t a great risk and works well in tandem with Lucas. On Saturday the Scot was on to a loser from the start, given that (for god alone knows what reason) he was effectively being deployed as a defensive midfielder. His performance was utterly dire but what can he do? He is not a defensive-minded player; square pegs in round holes springs to mind. The remaining signings either haven’t been given a long enough run out to warrant a proper opinion (Coates, Doni) or have been a success: Suarez, Enrique, Bellamy.
For the most part, you would look at that and say that since this time last year we’ve had pretty much a 50-50 success rate in terms of signings which, for any club, is pretty decent. Where the holes start to show in that argument though, is in the fact that – Suarez aside – our three ‘big’ signings have had a combined fee of over £70 million between them. For less than that, City signed Sergio Aguero, Samir Nasri and Gael Clichy. The thought of what could have been is almost too much to bear.
If you’re of a mind to take the opinion that ‘you win some, you lose some’, then I will point you in the direction of the rumoured interest in Wilfried Zaha, Scott Sinclair, Nikica Jelavic. They are all decent, average players but nothing that we couldn’t already match. For Zaha, see Suso; for Sinclair, see Sterling; for Jelavic, see Pacheco and the list goes on. Our signings would be worrying enough if it wasn’t for the fact that we’re seemingly looking to compliment them with equally average signings. I can see the arguments already: we aren’t in Europe, we can’t attract bigger players, we can’t match the top clubs for money at the moment. But this has nothing to do with us not being able to attract top talent, we are seemingly purposely chasing very average players. I have no idea whether this is down to the Director of Football or Kenny himself, but they’re both equally as culpable because as far as I’m aware, Comolli draws up the shortlists and Kenny has the final say; nobody is signed without all parties agreeing.
I just don’t buy the argument that we’re buying the best we can get. We had no Champions League football when we signed Suarez and he is world class. We had no problem recruiting the Premier League’s current best left-back in the summer and signing one of the future’s brightest young centre backs in Sebastien Coates in the summer. Nor did we have a problem convincing a Brazilian international ‘keeper to come and keep our bench warm for a couple of years. Besides, even if we did have problems attracting the very best talent, there is still a tier below that that we could quite comfortably pilfer and at more reasonable prices than we’re being quoted for the likes of Zaha and Sinclair. Look at Newcastle’s batch of recent signings: Ba, Cabaye, Papisse Cisse; all Internationals, all talented and all signed for less than what we paid for Jordan Henderson. If you really look, if you take the British-centric blinkers off, there are bargains all across Europe, if you really look. And if you want further examples of this, look no further than our current squad, with the likes of Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas and Bellamy all snapped up in years gone by and for a pittance compared to some of the fees we are seemingly prepared to pay for average dross.
I should make it clear that this isn’t aimed solely at the management, nor just at Kenny Dalglish but a football team is only as good as its’ manager and Kenny has to get a handle of some real issues if we are to continue our development under him. I should reiterate for those who like to jump to their own conclusions that I am not saying ‘sack the manager’. Not at all. What I am saying is that there are a number of things I believe need to happen for us to get back on track, in terms of both future signings and in managing what we already have and a few small but important steps would be:
1. Rewarding good form and not persisting with expensive signings purely to try and prove a point. Using tactics that suit us, not trying to adapt to and accommodate the opposition, at least not when we haven’t got the squad to work that way yet.
2. Adapting to injuries and suspension better, i.e. not fitting players into positions they aren’t suited to and, instead, working with the players we have available and playing to their strengths. In the same vein – better use of substitutions; use them like they can make a difference, not just because you’ve got 3 available and feel like they’re obligatory.
3. Not limiting ourselves to one region or age group in the transfer market; we cannot win trophies with such a blinkered philosophy. A football club and its’ squad needs to be an eclectic mix of home-grown and foreign, of youth and experience. If our recent signings are what the Moneyball philosophy brings us, then I’d kindly like to ask for our money back.
4. Kenny needs to know when to take the blame and admit defeat and no more so than in the case of Andy Carroll. We need to take the hit, sooner or later, and if we can recoup £10-£15 million for him then we can consider that a good bit of business and a lesson learned.
So as the semi-final 2nd leg against Manchester City draws near, we can only hope that immediate lessons have been learned from Saturday’s defeat against Bolton but that the severity of the defeat and utter ineptitude of the performance will have lasting repercussions and positively affect the way we move forward, both in this window and for the remainder of the season. By the time next summer comes along, I can only hope we’ll be feeling much more positive about our progression and the teams’ state as a whole.
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A major factor in where we are going wrong was quite well shown in the game against Bolton. For preparation our opponents KNOW that we have an almost non-existent attack and they can safely plan their game in the knowledge that they need not increase their defence but rather, increase their attack and midfield options. Bolton was an example that demonstrated this tactic admirably as they knew we would be hard=pressed to score a goal.
Just watching Reserves today – bloody pathetic – these youngsters are the most overated bunch of all time – absolute crap. PLEASE GO KENNY
How lucky LFC are to have supporters like you!
Absolutely ridiculous knee-jerk reaction to a poor result, only the second time this season in all competitions that we have conceded more than 1 goal, I’ll repeat that we have only conceded more than 1 goal twice!!! Also only Chelsea and City have created more chances than us in the league so all your comments about tactics and creation are obviously just simply your opinion formed after a couple of difficult games and results as we have been more creative than 17 other teams this season. We are having an issue converting those chances and you know why? Because of the ridiculous pressure everybody is putting on the team to score nobody is having any composure in front of goal. Is Carroll a worse player than N’gog? Not on your life, N’gog has 2 in 21 for Bolton, Carroll has 6 in 36 for us, no it isn’t impressive yet and he is still settling in and the team is experiencing these issues in front of goal (not just him) but if World Cup winning striker Torres who had 81 in 143 for us is allowed to struggle at Chelsea an only have 5 in 42 then 23 year old Carroll is allowed to find it a little hard to adapt in his first year too!
Good write up,sincere & truthfull. if kenny/comolli had been in charged during the period of hicks/gillet ,with no funds for transfer ,LFC would have been relegated to the championship.cos this guys simply don’t have a clue of spotting talents & managing scare resources.I think they should be told to step aside .
Julius nice theory but wrong Kenny and Comolli have so far spent £35 million net of which £20 million was generated from cutting the wage bill the first year with Hicks and Gillet Rafa increased the wage bill and squad size and spent £40 million net. Hicks and Gillet were horrible asset strippers who nearly destroyed our club for their financial gain but, although Rafa should always be remembered for what he acheived on the pitch for us, he mismanaged the money available to him big time, tactical genius but financial idiot (losing Alonso at £30 million got £5 million to spend what do you do? Buy Villa who is begging to join us for £35 million and partner him with Torres? Or sell Arbeloa for a million and buy Johnson for £18 million and injured Aquilani for £18 mllion?). Kenny will win more in the next 6 years than Rafa did and Comolli will spend the money a lot more astutely.
anfield rd dreamer
Your post is utter tripe. In criticising Julius you have posted your own opinion as fact, but your whole piece is riddled with hypocrisy.
You talk about net spend, but you conveniently forget to mention that 2 0f Rafa’s signings (Torres and Babel) contributed £58 million to Kenny’s gross spend. What and where is your proof that £385,000 per week has been cut from the wage bill under Comolli and Dalglish, but that it increased under Rafa?
Most jurists agree that Rafa had a net spend of between £12-£14 million a season during his tenure, because it’s impossible to be exact. Considering what Rafa had to deal with for the majority of his time with LFC, that is simply sensational. The job he did bordered on perfect and wining the EPL would have made it a perfect. Going through everything he managed to achieve again would just embarrass you. If you’re a fan you should know that anyway.
Rafa was a tactical genius no doubt, but to say he mismanaged the money is factually incorrect and borders on fantasy. We achieved the biggest profit in our history on 2 of his signings (Alonso and Torres, approx £50 million). Whether you agree with the sale of Alonso or not, that’s fact. Arbeloa had 1 year remaining on his contract and wanted to go home. Along with Arbeloa, Rafa made a profit on all but 4 or 5 players signed by him. The players he felt didn’t cut it at LFC were offloaded quickly without sentiment generally only incurring a small loss (i.e. keane). Redknapp at Spurs made the biggest loss on him.
You admit Hicks and Gillet were asset stripping, and in the same sentence say Rafa mismanaged the money, what money did Rafa have to mismanage under Hicks and Gillet? Not to mention Rafa actually red flagged Hicks and Gillet to the fans.
How you think you can compare Rafa and Kenny now is beyond me, but I’ll humour you. Rafa remaining players have outperformed Kenny’s signings this season bar Bellamy, Enrique and Suarez, but I think the sign of a good player is one that holds his value. This allows you to use them for a few years and then sell them for a profit.
So let’s compare
——Rafa’s players that played against Man City——
Reina- signed approx £6 million now valued £25 million.
Agger – signed approx £6 million now valued £15 million.
Skyrtl – signed approx £6 million now valued £15 million.
Kuyt – signed approx £10 million now valued £8 million.
Johnson – signed approx £18 million now valued £16 million.
Reasonable valuations for these players, and don’t forget we’ve had 3 seasons and above from all of them. Still able to hold their value.
——Kenny’s players that played against Man City——-
Carroll- signed approx £35 million now valued £15 million.
Downing- signed approx £20 million now valued £10 million.
Henderson- signed approx £18 million now valued £15million.
Adam- signed approx £8 million now valued £8 million.
Enrique- signed approx £8 million now valued £12 million.
Bellamy- no resale value, would only move on a free.
Suarez – signed approx £22 million now valued £35 million.
Looking at the performances of some of these players I think the valuations are fair. Kenny’s only saving grace is Suarez, Bellamy and Enrique have performed well. In 3 seasons time who knows. Also, Suarez will never command the price of a Torres or a Ronaldo unless he’s more prolific. How many of Kenny’s signing could we sell now for the money we spent signing them? Only 2?
Check the maths anfield rd dreamer, and see if it compares with Rafa, and you talk about Rafa wasting money, maybe a closer look at Comolli would help? It doesn’t look good at the moment? I love Kenny as much as all LFC fans do, but he won’t be able to do what Rafa did.
Agreed mate! If Rafa had a bit more money, he would’ve landed either Silva or Mata and I’m sure Torres would be in the form of his life! What I’m quite sick at is the purchase of Downing and Henderson! I do disagree with Henderson’s current evaluation! I truly think that he’s worth £5-6million and Rafa’s young recruits such as Suso, Sterling, Jonjo, Toni Silva, Ngoo, are worth more! Comolli’s not the problem as I think if he had his say, he’d have M’Villa, Ayew, Boudebouz and other French players on the radar! It’s Daglish’s pick to have Downing??? Henderson??? Adam??? Carroll??? (I think Andy will come good though! Look at Rushie’s start! Similar as Big Andy!)…I think Daglish has it all wrong with his team selection as I’d ALWAYS have Hendo coming off the bench with Maxi, Johnson and Kuyt playing the advanced role, with Kelly/Carra at right back! Ultimately, if it was up to me, I’d call Rafa up and tell Daglish to help with the reserves again!
dalglish is a great manager and a lot bether than Rafa for me couse hes on the cup final king kenny is the greates
Shaun
You might be right about the valuations , but I think Henderson will come good. I’m not sure about Carroll though, but I think buying Downing was a huge mistake. £20 million for a 27 year old player with no resale value is crazy. Adam for £8 million is just ok in my book, but he has a terrible 1st touch. Bellamy, Enrique and Suarez have been good signings
However we should still show some respect for Kenny and give him our support.
Right you’ve made a few mistakes here:
1 You’ve assumed I’m anti Rafa, you’re wrong. Rafa is/was a tactical genius, his failings have always been the transfer market and people skills, can’t work with anybody, he walked out of Valencia because he wasn’t in charge of putting the squad together, the squad he was able to win 2 out of 3 la liga titles with he should have been grateful not indignant, he also lost his job at Inter for demanding they increase the biggest squad in Italy, If he wasn’t so stubborn and able to work with a good football director and an assistant like Phil Thompson to man manage and motivate the players he would be best manager on the planet, but he doesn’t he likes his assistants to be yes men (Sammy Lee replacing Paqo) and he either walks (Inter, Juventus and Purslow with us) or gets whatever director he works with the sack (Parry and blames Purslow for never winning the league even though Purslow only got job because he got Parry sacked and Purslow was only there for Rafa’s final year). Just because I appreciate his talents doesn’t mean I’m not aware of (and was frustrated by) his weaknesses too.
2 You make the same old mistake, Rafa was here for six years not just the 3 under the crooks, he was even well funded during their first year before their true colours came out, you can even argue that his successes happened during that time, all except the second place.
3 You’re comparing the careers of players who have been here awhile to players in their first 6 or 12 months, most players have to take time to settle at new clubs. How rubbish was Dzeko from Jan to Summer for City? Really useful player now settled. Silva was ok last year phenomenal this year. Thierry Henry had really difficult first year before going on to be an amazing talent.
4 My points were never anti Rafa intended they are more pro Kenny, under Kenny we have improved six points within the last calendar year and are currently the second best defensive unit in the league and third most creative, now think back 15 months ago to how awfull we were under Roy, that was the Liverpool Kenny inherited, not the Liverpool during Rafa’s hey day, that Liverpool was killed during Rafa’s last year and Roy’s brief stint.
the season is not over yet we can still go to top four!!
and we are in the cup final for me is great i mean we need to improve in epl now!!!!!!we need to win against wolfes for sure or we screwd
Are you feverish David!! Top 4! There are mid table clubs better than us! Everyone Raves of Agger and he’s just an above average player! We have Downing (No resale value), Henderson (who plays every fricken game and does NIL!), Adam (Error Prone), Carroll (who I have faith in the future, but absolutely disgusting finishing!)…I was raving about Defoe at West Ham, Dempsey way before Fulham, Mata when ppl were screaming for Silva, Demba Ba when we sold Babel to Hoffenheim, Taye Taiwo many many many years ago, Adam Johnson when he was plying for Middlesborough, and the future players we still miss out on Andre Ayew, Boudebouz, Xherdan…We have a whole lot of crap on our team to be honest and I so wish Lucas didn’t get injured as he held well. Are we going to count on Gerrard and Bellers forever?? Remember, if we don’t attempt to pull a Wenger and introduce a young player in the line up here or there (which we have barely done this season!), LFC have NO Future! And for all those willing to kiss up to Daglish, I say YES, he’s ONE of our greatest players second to Barnes and Rushie, and even a good coach at that!, but eventhough Rafa was supposedly not a good communicator, he had just amount of the same passion Daglish has! I was there for the Hillsborough ceremony, why don’t you YOUTUBE what Rafa has done and said! Secondly, 80% of the present day players you adore in LFC (past and present) are here because of Rafa: Pepe! Agger! Skrtel! Lucas! Torres! Alonso! Luis Garcia!…He improved the games of both Gerrard and Carra(best production under Rafa)!..He was also stuck under the frustrating H&G management and he had to sell to buy! Remember that Daglish bought Hendo for 16m while Rafa bought Sterling, Jonjo, Suso, Pacheco for a quarter of Hendo’s fee and THEY’RE ALL BETTER by far!
anfield rd dreamer
I asked you to answer some simple questions, but unsurprisingly you have failed that as well. Your post again is based on your own flim flam, and not what actually happened.
1 I’ve shown you in my post above that Rafa did not mismanage LFC money. He actually did a 1st class job with the money at his disposal, and he rarely made a loss. Now, you can argue you didn’t agree with the signings he made, but you can’t factually prove he had a poor transfer record. Just to strengthen your flimsy argument you now throw in that he had no people skills. This is of course complete rubbish. Rafa is a single minded professional and he didn’t allow anything to get in the way of his objectives. He didn’t do relationships with players because he always wanted to keep things professional. Players are grown men, if they are lily livered and wanted a kiss and a cuddle they should bring their wives or girlfriends along with them. Paco and Sammy were definitely not yes men, and the reason why Paco left was because Rafa was concerned about Paco’s over familiar relationship with Jose Mourinho and his staff, and because Paco wanted more say about tactics. Therefore their working relationship came to an end, but I haven’t heard Paco talking about Rafa anywhere in the media. Parry was incompetent and all LFC fans know it, and when Purslow came in he immediately set about undermining Rafa and making football decisions (i.e. signing Joe Cole, confirmed by R Hodgson). Rafa told us that once Purslow came in everything changed. Ask if the Valencia chairman would take Rafa back now, because he has recently stated he regrets letting Rafa leave. Your point on Phil Thompson is also garbage considering he fell out with so many players when he was assistant to Houllier. It was common knowledge that he and Fowler didn’t get on.
2 Again you are making things up without knowing the truth. I’m well aware Rafa was here for 6 seasons. Rafa’s brief in 2004 was to get LFC back to the top. Rafa was promised transfer funds by Moores and Parry, but LFC didn’t really have the money needed to compete. That was clear because David Moores had to personally loan the £10 million to the club to buy D Kuyt. Every time Rafa had a player of any calibre lined up we would lose out because we didn’t have the money (i.e. Dani Alves, Simao Sabrosa, David Silva, Juan Mata and Kun Aguero, as a 17 year old for £12 million, £35 million to Man City last summer). We then had to settle for other options, but not first choice. The only reason Hicks and Gillett loosened the purse strings in the summer of 2007 was because Rafa called their bluff. He found them out, and it’s thanks to him we still have a club.
3 Rafa’s remaining players are all performing well as was Lucas (value now £20 million, another poor transfer) before his injury. It would have been interesting to see who Rafa had signed with the money Kenny has had. The British players that Kenny signed were bought because they were experienced EPL players that would not need time to settle, and were ready to go. They are not foreign players moving to another country and having to deal with a new language and different culture. Mind you I’m sure you think Kenny has people skills, so tell me why he can’t get his signings to play?
I don’t care where we are in the table now, but with the money we’ve spent we should at least be close to or in the top 4. It would have been expected of Rafa, and I expect it of Kenny. I suggest you do more research as everything I written is available to read online. Don’t just make things up, I’m bored with you now.
1 Depends on what your definition of doing well with money is, if its just all about making money on every signing then yeah he did well sounds more like a used car sales man to me but thats up to you on what you admire, if its about outspending every team but Chelsea during his 6 years but never acheiving what he was brought in to do, win the league, then no he wasn’t good with it. Name me one successful manager who didnt have players who loved him, even “professional” ones like Wenger Mourinho an Fergie are loved by their players and ex-players for their positive relationships they developed, its “football manager” not “bank manager” you still have to man manage build confidence and motivate! You prove my point about Rafa surrounding himself with yes men getting rid of Paco (assistant during our main successes) and replacing him with Sammy Lee because as you put it Paco wanted more of a say on tactics, as I put it he didn’t agree with all of Rafa’s decisions and wasn’t prepared to just say yes. Yes when Purslow came in everything may of changed, in Rafa’s final year, how did that stop Rafa being successful in his first 5 years??? If Parry was so awful why did Rafa miss him so much as to hate Purslow so much? And before saying bad things about Purslow remember all he could do was try and make deals for the players Rafa and Roy wanted with the almost non-existant money available or go for whoever he thought was the ‘next best thing’ out of what he could afford if couldn’t get first target, he still managed to get Rafa Aquilani and Johnson his first choices for that window, whether he was good at it or not he put his ass personally on the line for this club risking getting personally sued to stand up for us to get rid of the crooks and deserves more respect than Rafa shows him.
2 He spent £25 million net in his first 2 seasons the events you refer too was his third season when he was only provided with £15 million net to spend. Rafa “found them out in 2007”??? That was their first transfer window found what out??? They’d only just arrived they were “found out” the following season when they started their asset stripping in summer 08 and tried to replace Rafa with somebody they thought they could control better.
3 Rafa out spent Kenny in 07-08 compared to what Kenny has spent this year, despite the inflation the transfer window is subject to every year, but bought more players so they cost less, Rafa’s philosophy was all about large squads with experienced personnel in the reserves to turn to if needed, Kenny’s is about smaller more elite squads backed up by the academy, personal choice which style you prefer.
4 We are half way through Kennys first full season, he has got them defending, 2nd best in league, and creating, 3rd best in league, he has also got them competing, first final in 6 years, all he hasn’t acheived yet is to get them scoring, one last hurdle to overcome and no matter how “average” you and others think this team is they will be getting impressive results and league positions as soon as that clicks into place. You are demanding that Kenny take Liverpool from a relegation battle to above Chelsea and Arsenal within 12 months, Rafa only finished above both of those clubs in one season out of six.
It really doesn’t matter if we are 4th, 7th, 2nd, 18th or 1st 22 games into the season it matters were we are after the 38th game of the season and Kenny has plenty of time before he reaches that yet. And what is your defnition of close to top 4? Newcastle and Arsenal 1 point above us, Chelsea six, we beat all three teams first half of season, Chelsea n Arsenal away from home, and have to look promising to beat them all again in the second half of season, that means we only need Chelsea to drop 3/4 points more than we drop during the next 16 games, not unreasonable to think we can do that, especially if we do start getting our goal scring form sorted and considering we get Suarez back after Wolves and Chelsea have Champions League commitments and another month without Drogba. And if you’re bored of me stop attacking Kenny, respect Rafa all you like I respect him as one of the best technical managers English football has seen and a great manager for Liverpool but will never accept the idea that Rafa could be doing better than Kenny or that Kenny would have done worse than Rafa back then. And some of what I say may be opnion, some of what you say is opinion, dont have to agree, but nothing I’ve said is made up!
Even though I’m bored with you, I will entertain you one more time. You have clearly sharpened your crayons, but let me make some important points very clear, because you are obviously reading something’s in my posts that are very definitely not there.
You are wrong to accuse me of attacking Kenny. I have not attacked Kenny in any of the posts I’ve written. I have expressed an opinion that he would not be able to do what Rafa has done, taking into account all the circumstances with LFC during his tenure.
I am rightly questioning the signings Kenny has made, as I have questioned previous managers of the club which also includes Rafa. It is you who called Rafa a “financial idiot”, your words not mine. An insult to one of the greatest managers to manage LFC. I have only compared Rafa with Kenny to prove a point to you, but you obviously can’t comprehend this.
You’re a hypocrite. In your 1st sentence you admit Rafa did well with the money he used for transfers “Depends on what your definition of doing well with money is, if its just all about making money on every signing then yeah he did well”. To qualify your position you’re now trying to change the argument by saying he should have done better with the money he had spent. This debate started because you said Rafa mismanaged LFC money, and I proved to you he hadn’t. Since then you have constantly changed the area of reference to mask your inability to argue the specific point I raised with you.
There are many players that will tell you they are better players now after working with Rafa, so your point about confidence and motivation is an invalid one. If according to you Rafa was unsuccessful, and motivation and confidence was a problem how could LFC have done what they did under Rafa (i.e. CL final twice and winning 1, League cup final, FA cup winners and beating the likes of Juventus, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Barcelona the best teams in Europe making LFC the number 1 ranked team in Europe).
Rafa was the boss, and Paco was his subordinate. Paco stepped out of line and Rafa found this unacceptable, so Rafa removed him. Something that happens everyday in all walks of life. If you don’t agree, that’s fine, but don’t make things up by saying Rafa only wanted yes men around him. If Kenny decides to remove Steve Clarke tomorrow will you say it’s because Kenny only wants yes men around him?
What sort off idiotic question is this “If Parry was so awful why did Rafa miss him so much as to hate Purslow so much?” Parry was a complete disaster, he was a poor business man who was not generating enough money by way of sponsorship for the club, and he acted very slowly in the transfer market often losing us our 1st choice targets. He was also responsible for nearly losing SG to Chelsea because he dithered over SG new contract.
It’s common knowledge that Purslow took an abnormal role when he came into the club. That was confirmed by Roy Hodgson when he said it was Purslow who signed J Cole not him. So explain what was Purslows role in the signing of J Cole, and if it did happen could it have been happening with other players while Rafa was in charge? Purslow was also responsible for giving J Carragher a new 3 year contract, which is really questionable. Why did he do that? But Purslow and Parry are not the issue it’s your claim that Rafa Mismanage LFC money.
With regards your 2nd point it was quite clear there was a policy of sell to buy from the moment that Rafa took charge, but he was unable to do this as the remaining expendable players at the time carried no real transfer value. Some of them were on big wages and no other clubs were prepared to pay transfer fees for them. He generally had to give the players away on free transfers to get them off the wage bill. This clearly shows that money was tight. The reason David Moores had to dip into his own pocket to help the club with the purchase of D Kuyt. That is why D Moores was so desperate to sell the club. How can anyone argue with what Rafa was able to do? £12 – £15 million net spend a season and everyone from pundits to the media still expected Rafa to produce miracles, and he did.
You are playing make believe again. Hicks and Gillett took control in February 2007, and Rafa was trying unsuccessfully to get them to commit to a transfer strategy up until CL final. Hicks and Gillett in the build up to the Champion League final where raving and giving it large how brilliant Rafa was, and they were going to support his long term plans. Rafa had sussed them though, but they were still stalling, and Rafa knew they were not going to do what they had publicly promised. So after the CL final he called them out very publicly. This drove Hicks wild and he wanted to get shot of Rafa there and then, but he new the fans wouldn’t allow that to happen. This forced their hands which led them to restructure the debt to find some transfer funds to give to Rafa. This is well documented, check it for yourself, but you should know this.
With regards point 3, you are playing with words and you know it.
• Are you comparing Kenny’s 1st year in charge compared to Rafa’s 2007/2008 season?
• What is your point here, or are you just trying to fool people?
• What relevance does this point have in your claim that Rafa mismanaged LFC money?
• Why would you randomly pick season 2007/2008 where Rafa made the biggest outlay on transfers to compare with Kenny’s outlay in the last twelve months? Probably because your argument is weak?
Point 4
Again you are putting words in my mouth, where did I say this team is average? Make believe again?
The British players that Kenny signed were signed because they were experienced Premier League players. Signed because they would supposedly settle in quickly and then start performing. I feel with the players already in the squad, the team at a minimum should challenge very strongly for a top 4 position. That’s only my opinion, but what does this have to do with your claim that Rafa was a “financial idiot”? Again off on a tangent.
With the widely circulated news today that LFC have approached Man City and proposed a swap with A Carroll going to City and Tevez coming to us. Although LFC have denied this, there seems to be some mileage in it. It seems that Kenny has probably realised Carroll wont cut it at LFC. So my and other fans concerns have been proved right.
Now, let’s look at the real issue. With all the instability that surrounded the club during most of Rafa time in charge only a fool would say Rafa didn’t do a very good job, and was a “financial idiot”.
While in charge, Rafa spent £230.76 million approx on transfer gross. £151 million approx gross was recouped with the transfer of players out of the club, leaving a net total of £79.476 million (Telegraph figures. My own research indicate similar figures from most other sources). This equates to an average net spend of £13.25 million approx per season which is undeniably stunning.
Where it becomes an even greater accolade is what happens after Rafa leaves (i.e. his legacy). Let’s look at how much money the players that were signed by Rafa have been sold for since Rafa left. LFC have generated £92 million approx from players they’ve sold that were originally signed by Rafa. Liverpool have recouped a total of £243 million approx on players sales from players signed and cultivated by Rafa, that would indicate a net profit of £12.5 million approx on transfers.
You also have to take into account the players that are currently in the Liverpool squad which have a conservative value of £95 -£100 million. This clearly shows Rafa has left LFC with easily £100+ million approx net assets in the playing squad. Let’s also not forget the Academy (Rafa’s brainchild) where there are some extremely talented youngsters which I have not included in my calculation. Of which 4 or 5 of them could quite possibly be worth £10 million each or more in the next few years. You have to be on drugs to call Rafa a “financial idiot”.
Now, not referring to whether he kissed or cuddled his players or whether he didn’t like Parry or Purslow or whether he should be removing his assistants, but keeping to the issue I raised with you purely on his transfer record. This clear evidence shows that Rafa was a genius as a coach and also in the transfer market.
How can you stoop so low and try to discredit a manager that will have his name mentioned in the same breath as Shankly, Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish just to win an argument? A man that still lives and breathes for the club, the fans and the city, and not to mention the huge amount of charity work he and his wife undertake. The fact that he still supports the families of the Hillsborough disaster.
You my friend are a dreamer, a fantasist, someone who likes make believe and fairytales. I don’t believe you are a fan of LFC.
The £95 -£100 million refers to the value of Rafa’s signings that currently remain in the squad.
Passion’s running high on this page!
Now you are the one boring me you complain about my opinions but state your own as fact yes I call Rafa a financial idiot and I stand by it, I DON’T CARE how much Rafa made the club on selling players I care what he won and he won some great things for us which is why I will always remember him as a great tactical genius, however I will not look at him as some godlike figure who could do no wrong he had faults and that meant he didn’t win as much as he could have! You admit Rafa made the owners spend well in what was Rafa’s fourth year at the club, Rafa took over a top 4 club with one job to do: win the league! He did good during his first 5 years but never reached the target he was hired to acheive! Was it because players like Masch, Gerrard, Alonso, Reina and Torres weren’t good enough? No, worse teams have won the league! Was it because he wasn’t tactically astute? No, we have both stated he was a genius! Now is were we both differ in our opinions, I don’t believe a manager can blame a six year period on lack of funds during his final two years, I think by that stage taking over a top 4 squad and being reasonably funded to make that squad his own he should have had a squad that he was happy with by then and should have progressed and won the league (as much as it pains me to point it out Fergie can go through 2 sometimes 3 quiet years in the trasnfer window at a time and the f**er still wins things) I also don’t believe he can blame Purslow who was only in place for his final year. I believe Rafa is a great manager but I do not believe he was a motivator, most players have hinted at this he is a great coach who can make players play better and teach them about the game which is great, but can’t make them care more, and I do not think he has ever had realistic expectations when it comes to the transfer market. You can look at his time at Valencia and Inter Milan for evidence of that and when he asked Parry to sign both Keane and Barry and then when Villa wouldn’t sell Barry for the funds we had available he sulked and refused to use Keane so we had to sell him on 6 months later at a loss and that episode led to Parry getting the sack, I’m glad Parry didn’t have enough in the Kitty to pay the extra 3 or 4 million for Barry to get both. They are the only two reasons I think Rafa never finally acheived his target man management and unrealistic expectations in transfer market they were the only chinks in his armour. I don’t think Kenny will experience these issues, Kenny is more down to earth he has already limited the squad size and hasn’t spent anywhere near as much money during his year as people seem to think he also seems grateful for what players are signed for him not publicly slate people for not signing enough and is famous as one of footballs best man motivators. Under Rafas 6 years we won 2 major trophies (never won league cup mate that was Houlier) and finished in the top 4 on 4 occaisions one of which he finished 2nd, the 6 years previous to Rafa we finished in top 4 on 4 occaisions finishing 2nd once and won 4 major trophies Rafa did not progress the team to that next level whch is what he was hired to do. Rafa was a tactical genius and WITH Parry’s help signed some fantastic players and had at his disposal what should have been an amazing squad, my excuses for Rafa not winning the league was the final two years, his awful decisions on what to do with the cash availabe to him and his man management skills, I’ve said why I believe that, the question is, why do you think Rafa did not win the league?
And as to Kenny as one fan to another please take my advice within 12 months we have progressed a thousand mles there is no reason to doubt that progression will not continue, trust me mate sit back and watch the good times roll, in 6 years if things haven’t progressed like I think they will you can shout a great big “I told you so” at me but untill Kenny has had time there is no reason to believe Kenny is not our best manager since…well…Kenny!
I TOLD YOU SO!
so where exactly are you going wrong !this will be my last reply to any of his posts there terrrible and im finished -live for liverpool!!!your better off moving on