WELL deadline day for us Liverpool fans was the biggest disappointment since the Gobbledy Gooker (and if you get that reference I will be impressed)!
What should have been a good and productive transfer window has left a sour taste.
I want to discuss more positive matters but first I want to raise the 3 main concerns I have following deadline day so I am not blindly labelled a FSG sycophant, although you may be surprised to hear Clint Dempsey isn’t one of these specifically.
First off surrounds Andy Carroll. I am a big fan of Carroll so understandably I am sad to see him leave the club on loan (although over the moon it’s not to Newcastle), but realistically I can see why it happened. He wasn’t first or second choice, rightly or wrongly, and we are not City or Chelsea and cannot be paying £80k a week to a third choice striker, yet what puzzles me is why he was allowed to leave without the absolute guarantee of a replacement coming in. You don’t sell your house before you buy another!
If the stories are true about a deal with Sturridge being in place only after Chelsea signed another, then why did we not have a similar deal with West Ham? My second problem centres on Jordan Henderson. If the stories about him being offered to Fulham in exchange for Dempsey what does this do to his confidence? What does this say about how the club view him? Personally, I am a fan of his and thought he played very well against Hearts and can certainly perform a role in the middle or the forward three, no problem. He is a young player with a great attitude and bags of potential that we seemingly pimped.
The final concern is the decision making process, as already discussed somewhat. The stories I hear are that the price Fulham wanted us to pay for Dempsey was far different than Spurs actually paid, and that is of course their prerogative and likewise, we were quite right not to pay. But why oh why going into the last day of the transfer window did we not have any backup options, especially following Carroll’s departure? I believe all three of these points need to be addressed by the owners and they certainly need to deliver some positive PR in the coming weeks (other than John Henry’s letter), whether that be contracts for the likes of Agger, Sterling and Suso or developments in the stadium plans.
Despite my concerns I fail to fully buy into the complete doom and gloom that seems to be hanging over Liverpool heads. First and foremost the players that we did bring in are high quality and players that Rodgers has specifically identified rather than selected from a list.
Joe Allen already seems a bargain at £15m and his performances have got all connected with the club – from the stands to the pitch – waxing lyrical about his ability. He will control games and allow us to institute Rodgers’ philosophy in a way our previous midfield could not. Nuri Sahin has a quality we all know is at a level above where we currently are. I’m sure if you asked Ferguson, Wenger, Mancini and the like they would love to have him in their team. His skill, creativity and dynamism will suit us and help create chances, once he adapts to Premier League life. Fabio Borini is a player known well to Rodgers and seems at this stage to provide the legs and work rate that Kuyt has previously offered at a fraction of the weekly cost. I’m confident that as he settles we will see the best of him, although I’m sure some have written him off already! Shock!
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The likes of Yesil and Assaidi are unknowns to us but carry a huge amount of promise. What seems to have been overlooked is that we have brought in young players. We have drastically reduced the average age of the squad clearly following the notion of ‘year zero’ (funnily enough I wrote an article about this so please check it out!). Had Carroll stayed I think we would have been overjoyed at our business.
Two of our most important, if not crucial signings this summer have been without doubt Skrtel and Suarez. I don’t care what anybody says, but there were clear signs last season of a turnaround and a quality returning to a play which was spoiled by low confidence and form. Suarez and Skrtel, arguably our best performers last year were clearly in demand but whereas Arsenal lost RVP and Song, and Spurs lost RVDV and Modric, we tied down our ‘players of the year’ to long term deals. As the North London clubs will be aware, trying to fill the holes left by such huge players is a tough task, and in the likes of Podolski and Dembele for example, they may have taken the first steps in doing so, but they also need some fortune, whereas our focus was able to fall on improving the squad – which on the whole I think we did (although I think we remain light up top, and could use more faces for the squad) – their starting point was on having to replace. The big names we lost in Kuyt and Maxi were older players whose wages ruled out any chance of squad player status unfortunately, but that is the reality, rather than established week in week out starters. This aspect is crucial as we have retained the players crucial to our strongest XI, as well as bringing in improvements on the existing playing staff. The issue that now presents itself to Rodgers is something which the likes of Everton have suffered in previous years, is that when injuries and suspensions take their toll the depth of our squad does not hold the same qualities of some of our rivals, yet this may work in our favour somewhat as this year we should certainly see more and more of Sterling as well as the first team emergence of the likes of Morgan, Suso, Yesil amongst others.
In terms of our play, we only really have the need for one recognised striker in the front three as the other two slots can easily be filled with either wingers (like we have seen with both Sterling and Downing deployed there) or attacking midfielders (such as Shelvey and Henderson). I will also give an early shout for Stevie (I will be writing a piece on this in the near future!) as the infamous ‘false 9’. Why not? He has it all in his locker and could thrive in a role centred purely on his attacking abilities.
All in all I think we have seen a successful summer in terms of signings, reducing a wage bill hugely unsuitable for our current climate, and retaining key members of the squad that has been slightly tainted over the last couple of days. Should we see this first half of the season with pinch of luck in terms of injury, the lack of established forwards may never be a serious issue. Yes, some very serious questions need to be asked of the owners but this should not overshadow the good the club has done. We bossed the champions without Agger, Sahin, Lucas, Assaidi and for the most part Carroll last week, and the ideals behind that performance more than the personnel are what we have to carry forward.
Let’s all please remember that a whole world of patience is required as this is a long term project and the club needs our SUPPORT. Of course questions need to be put to FSG as we do not know what goes on behind the scenes, but Rodgers and the players need and deserve our support, our noise, our contribution and the atmosphere only Anfield can create.
YNWA, please come find me on twitter @timdibs
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Rubbish, selling adam at a loss total joke, rogers slagging off carroll to the press behond a joke. Trying to trade Henderson for Dempsey at a loss of close to 15million jesus christ. Not mentioning the fat waste of space that is joe cole who is still hiding on our bench rinsing us for cash??? wtf. Ofloading Kuyt,Maxi,Carrol and replacing them with two complete unknowns absolutely sickening. rogers banging on about 4-3-3 all frikin summer then having only two strikers compete incompetence. 12 at Christmas ta-ra Rogers.
did you read the article fully? I questioned the Henderson swap business!
Kuyt and Maxi had to leave no question both their age combined with wages and first team opportunities meant that the club had no choice really. i for one was sad to see them go but realistically it was the right time. i see Borini as a natural replacement for Kuyt and the promotion of Sterling replaces Maxi, both progressive moves for the club moving forward no? The Carroll issue I believe I covered.
The 4-3-3 system does not rely on 3 strikers at all, as we have seen Spain played it with 0 strikers effectively. The disappointment in not replacing or retaining Carroll is that a recognised striker can better carry the weight of goalscoring expectation and all their training to this point will have been geared to scoring goals. Had Lucas not been injured on sunday i would have put money on seeing Stevie pushed into the front 3
Some good points there Tim, even if I am returning to this long after you wrote the article.
One point, however, where I would strongly disagree is in considering Dirk Kuyt as too old, too expensive and / or expendable. Dirk’s never-say-die attitude combined with his ability to score goals on big occasions is already sorely missed at Anfield (and appreciated at Fenerbahce). Liverpool vs. Udinese with Kuyt, Gerrard and Suarez may well have saved the day, as our Flying Dutchman did so many times in the past in Europe.
Laughable really how most lfc fans are buying all the talk from FSG and their yes man Rodgers…Rodgers has no credentials what so ever but folk still keep banging on “IN Rodgers We Trust”…why..show me where you come to the conclusion that he is this great tactical genius(even though he has no plan B at all)..If this was any other club we would be laughing at them..But some how we keep making the same mistakes,the trouble is that now we have to endure all the bullshit spin, as FSG cover their tracks.
Well said tim someone with a bit of rational thought in there head, mik what is wrong with your type? Get behind our team, YNWA
Its called critical thinking…you should try it.
We supporters have to accept that our team needs to be built from bottom up again. Unless u have tons of cash then purchases of top players become unviable. Every new manager we have has no time to build but instead needs to show results asap. Even Fergie was given time at MU when he first started. I think this is a great opportunity to blood new and younger players that we have on our books. with a new system and younger players some results may not go in our favor. But tell u what>>>we looked a damn good side in both games against the champion and Arsenal, Beautiful attacking football…but its a new system….for years our back four have been protected by the midfield, now its more open as we attack more and they will need to adapt. Finally, the way supporters and the press want results asap, Steven Gerrard would have stood no chance of getting into this Liverpool side when he was younger…give Rodgers and the young ones some time, his style on football makes sense…YNWA
Building from bottom up. didn’t we do that and end up with our worse point tally since the PL was formed? Great attacking football yes but without results. So BR is just a younger version of KD who got us into this mess in the first place. BR’s successor at Swansea is not only new to the team but to the country. The last i heard they are not doing too bad.
Fact is BR is too tied up with his “philosophy” and offers no tactical awareness and inflexible. This is what we had seen in the last 3 PL games. The latest one is agreat example. We spread our defense too wide and that was how Arsenal got their 1st goal in a counter. All to accomodate BR’s “philosophy”. To hell with the results but it suits his “philosophy”.
Thats whats so worrying..I really don’t believe we have the players to execute this system he keeps banging into the players…and now even our captains form is suffering due to trying to instill into players something that needs to be learnt from a young age,ask any spanish or brazilin this.
good point about gerrard . i never thought of that
Lets stick together lads – Brendan needs our support – and for all their faults FSG might still have the last laugh on the Glaziers – if Fergie goes – watch the shares go with him. The valuation placed on Man U is comparable to the 2008 financial crisis – the balloon will bust – FSG are trying to ensure we have a future – TOGETHER WE WILL GET THERE -COME ON BRENDAN LAD -WE HAVE FAITH IN YOU – p s joe allen is awesome
Oh i prefer the Glazers to be honest if the choice is between them and FSG. This doomdays scenario had been heaped upon them for years but they each season when it counts the Glazers are there. RVP for 29 mill anyone? And they were within seconds of winning the title last year.
Yes we are debt free but where were we last year? And this year and the next, looking at the rate that we are going (worse start in 50 years) Championship football beckons. Yse BR, way to go.
I think you need a good long look in a mirror my friend. The Glazers are rinsing that club and had it not been for their own quite astounding marketing and success through the 90’s they would have done a Leeds/Portsmouth by now.
tim i find your ( blind ) optimism totally unrealistic and shows a lack of knowledge of football . either that or it is a misguided effort at bringing some positivity to liverpools hopeless current situation .
the only thing i agree with you on , is the need for patience with rodgers . he is a good manager , we brought him in ,so we should give him a chance .
there is NO positivity from this transfer window ( allen is good but overpriced ) , it has just shown that we are stuck with another set of yank cowboys ( albeit not quite as a blatant ) who see liverpool as a cash cow to be milked . any other opinion than that is born out of naivety.
the likes of dempsey /borini / assaidi are not the type of player a club of liverpools stature should be trying to sign . look at man u /chelsea / city /arse signings for the type we should .
finally i didnt want to be to insulting , but after reading your opinions on henderson , i have to ask – how many liverpool games do you actually watch ?
Hi Bob,
Must admit your reply has brought a smile to my face. I am fairly ocmfortable with my knowledge of football.
How do quantify your statement on no positivity in the transfer window? Allen, Sahin and Borini alone are excellent players, high rated by many in the game along with the cheap buys in Assaidi and Yesil who may prove to be worldbeaters, we just dont know. As for Allen, man of the match against the champions and arsenal? a young lad who has settled so well it looks like he has played at anfield for years? by the time he leaves the club i think it is safe to say we will all say 15m is cheap!
How in your mind are FSG ‘milking’ the club? Was it because they sold Skrtel, Suarez and Agger this summer when they had the chance? hmmmm
As far as my footballing knowledge goes I would say it is a fairly safe bet that Liverpool cant compete with City or Chelsea but who really can in world football? PSG maybe. As for Arsenal and United, they can both offer CL which we cant, so in what way do you think this summer we could have signed RVP or Kagawa or Oscar or Hazard and so on? But this may be me being naive.
I see you disagree with me about Henderson, but being a football fan as well as a Liverpool fan I have watched Henderson at Sunderland and with the U21’s and base my opinion on him outside of him being played out of position here. Granted we paid an over inflated price but hey. feel free to read this for my further thoughts on Henderson http://live4liverpool.com/2012/05/view-from-the-kop/player-season-review-jordan-henderson
i have no problem with allen , and sahin has quality ( only a loanee ) but as for the rest , borini has potential but we need the real thing right now . i work in holland regularly and have seen assaidi , he is lightweight and a diver , not what we need to see in a red shirt , i dont know about yesil , but – how many young starlets have we signed in recent times and not had success ? a lot so i will wait and see .
we are liverpool football club not swansea or stoke or even spurs , we have one of the highest fan bases and revenue in world football . yet spurs can sign sigurdsson and dempsey . southampton can afford ramires and even top player like adam johnson is available and were not even in the chase .
its obvious FSG are trying to get pool into top 4 on the cheap and are not willing to spent the money required , i dont expect to keep up with chelsea / city but i do with utd / arse . we are being outspent by the likes of sunderland and southampton too .they hope rodgers style of football will get us into top 4 instead of money .honestly you dont really think they care about our club and this city , do you ??? ive lost all respect for you if the answer is yes .
as for henderson , i have seen him 5 or 6 times each for sunderland and u21 and he has never impressed . what matters is liverpool anyway and i saw all 40 starts + 6 sub apps last season and can honestly say he had 2 or 3 good ( not outstanding – just good ) games . is that good enough ?
as for those players you mentioned , yes we probably would have missed out on signing them ,but it would have shown ambition and some might join because we are liverpool . arent they ( and others ) the type of player you want to see or are you happy with a 2 million morrocan and the like ?
will respond to each paragraph in turn:
if you have no problem with Allen why raise the price tag? In the last year or so it has been fixations with price tags that has hampered the progress of some. Borini impressed for Roma last year, one of the top clubs in one of the top leagues in the world, combined with Rodgers intimate knowledge of his game I would suggest that all he needs is time to settle in at the club rather thannot being ready at all. I wouldnt like to comment on Assaidi as I dont know much about him, apart from each signing seems to have been selected by Rodgers rather than the scatter gun approach last year so will give him the benefit of the doubt. Same with Yesil, must be allowed the opportunity
You are quite correct we are Liverpool football club and are support is second to none, but in todays game players dont always go for that, there is a higher mercenary element. CL is a huge draw and we will always struggle to attract the top stars without it. Once they are here it is a different matter, plase see my thoughts on that here – http://live4liverpool.com/2012/08/view-from-the-kop/new-deals-show-how-special-lfc-still-is
We could have signed all 3 players you have mentioned but for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, the club decided they werent worth the fee quoted, the wages asked for or perhaps didnt act quick enough. Ever thought we werent in the chase for a player because we didnt want them? I would suggest that Johnson was not fancied by Rodgers hence the little interest. This summer we wanted Sahin badly and beat off competition from Arsenal for him!
Nobody is suggesting FSG are in this for a love of the club or the city on any level comparable by fans as that would be silly. Im also unsure whether you can suggest they are trying to get in the top 4 on the cheap! forgetting net spend, last summer and the preceding january they spent a lot of money and as we know they were issues, so perhaps they were more cautious this summer as a result. but saying that they still backed Rodgers with £30m as well as reducing a grossly inflated wage budget. Had we retained Carroll or say replaced with Dempsey/Sturridge would you have the same issues? I also dont believe they ‘hope’ Rodgers will work out. I would suggest they have gone into depth in the decision maing and with Rodgers and have a belief in his abilities. Personally I dont care who spent more money than us as throwing money at a problem often doesnt fix it, it is better we buy the right player. Allen is a prime example of this, a player Rodgers singled out as a must buy and a key to his way of playing therefore making the price tag irrelevent.
Henderson should not be judged purely on last season. He was played out of position and burdoned with a price tag that was out of his control. Admitedly he has never looked comfortable on the wing, but when played through the middle has really shown what he can do. Some of his passing against Hearts in a difficult game was very good with some beautiful balls to release Suarez. Had we signed him for 5m would you equally slate him or are you guilty of judging on a price tag? This lad is a young man with an obvious ability and the right attitude. he will succeed and become an England regular in my opinion.
I doubt the likes of Hazard would have joined because we are Liverpool! I doubt he would have signed for Chelsea if Bayern had beaten them! A lot of these players at the top end go for either the money (can we afford to spend £200k+ a week?? no) or for the chance of immediate success and in reality we arent going to pay someone wages in such excess compared to the rest of our squad and wont be challenging for the league this year and certainly not the Champions League. The Liverpool effect will be something that grips a playr once they hace signed, the prime example being Agger. I would rather the club focus on achievable targets that fit the club in personality, skill and mentality. Had Assasidi been our sole signing I would be very disappointed , but he wasnt and carries the diamond in the rough potential.
Sorry to sound repetitive, but…oh for the life of it please understand that “man u /chelsea / city /arse” are ALL in Champions league. Is it that difficult to understand? All of you who say we should buy this player and that, yes WE SHOULD, but do the player wish to come to us? Not many players today are driven by playing for the prestige of Liverpool, it is a harsh reality, those days are over when footballing romantics could also play football and loved clubs. A handful like Stevie, Carra and Agger, count them across the game, I bet the number will be fewer than one expects. Unless we are in champions league and mount a noteworthy title challenge the players that we all wish for are likely to stay away.
I do not want a sheikh at my club, I value the footballing values, and do not wish that to be destroyed by just CASH AND CASH and nothing else.
I don’t think there is any ‘blind’ optimism from Tim but you have to agree that his points have some merit. Prior to Friday, the majority of Liverpool’s fans would’ve said we’d had a relatively positive transfer window. It was only Carroll moving to WH and the subsequent failure to sign a replacement that has made many knee-jerk like spoilt kids.
The fact is, we’ve signed five very promising young players. I seem to remember a week or so ago most people were practically weeing themselves with delight at the prospect of signing Sahin. So try to put things in perspective. Also, try not to forget: Andy Carroll is now injured for 6 weeks. Whether or not he’d stayed (and whether or not he’d been injured if he’d stayed) is irrelevant because we’d still be without him.
The point is, we need to now get down to business and get behind the team. And some people saying that the likes of Borini, Assaidi, et al are not the types of player we should be signing need to realise that we can’t afford to sign the kind of players clubs like Chelsea can. But, that aside, they wouldn’t come to us anyway, without Champions League football, and who is to blame for that? Exactly. FSG got firmly behind the previous manager and look where he’s left us.
I agree that the squad has been improved. Allen & Sahni for Adam & Spearing is a no-brainer. Downing will be more useful cover at left-back than Aurellio, as he wont be permanently injured. Sterling for Downing on the wings is another no-brainer. Yesil for Eccleston is an upgrade. That leaves Maxi, Kuyt & Bellamy, who have been replaced with Morgan, Cole* & Assaidi. Which isn’t too bad considering Maxi & Kuyt had been rotting for a season on the bench anyway.
My only real problems would be:
1, not bringing in Dempsey (or another versatile forward player, so that Cole’s name would not have to feature above!
2, not adding depth to the squad. The squad was threadbare last season and this season is no different. FSG should have back their man, even if it was wit more youngsters so they could have been part of the project and learn Rodgers’ way over the next few seasons, like Allen did.
3, last season we were banging on about how the wage bill and average age had been reduced, yet we end up having to do the same again this season!! Just how low do FSG want the wage bill?
Can we really expect to achieve one of the lowest wage bills in the league and climb the table at the same time?
I agree our squad could have used fleshing out more but on the fli side what a chance for the young lads like suso, morgan, sterling, ngoo, ibe and so on to step up!
I think we have sufficiently brought down the average age and wage bill now to provide us with a platform to build on in coming windows
are you john henry in disguise ? that 2nd paragraph is near exactly what he said
is it a false statement? The savings made from Maxi. Kuyt and Aquilani’s contract alone show how out of control the wages were at the club for the position wew ere in
Hi Tim I get ya points,there has been failings by FSG but let’s move on get behind the team after all we are Lfc not that scum mufc who r totally debit ridden,I’m happy with players in CA went as he new he had no future at Lfc n overall we have marra Saving on the length of his contract but some peeps r so short sighted but that’s all for now till nx time
Well done mate
The most balanced and intelligent article I’ve read on Liverpool in a long time. Excellent stuff!!
tim
allens price tag is relevant . look what we could have got for 15m , top class strikers , i think he is good but you dont pay 15m for a neat + tidy ball winner that doesnt score goals ( we already had lucas + spearing ) . a touch harsh on allen but you get my point .
the 3 players mentioned ,we could have had but didnt is because FSG were not willing to pay what is required ( spurs were ) , we dont know for sure but id say thats why there was no move for johnson . there is no other reason ,any suggestion of being too slow is nonsense , they had all summer .
as for sahin , once again i have to question your knowledge about football (you are the one who said in a previous article to me that aurelio was on a pay as you play contract after he resigned – not true) . the reason sahin joined is because he wanted only a loan so he can try and get back in the madrid team ( he has stated this) , and arsenal only wanted permanent deal . you need to get your facts correct .
your paragraph about FSG is nonsense . they have not spent anywhere near 30m net , net is what counts , maybe maybe 10m ,and it was calculated that this summers transfers are saving them a half a million every week on wages .and probably only 20m last year .if you want to put your head in the clouds and think everything is ok ,do so . you were probably the same under hicks and gillet .
back to henderson , you keep going on about how good he was against hearts( i saw it ,i thought he was average) , it was hearts ! hearts are no better than a league 1 or 2 side .where is the good performances against united or city or chelsea ? there isnt any .you obviously have very low standards when it comes to players if you judge them v hearts .
if FSG weren’t so tight id swear you were their payed employee ,top players would still come to liverpool if we actually paid them the going rate ,but FSG wont .when milan got relegated they still signed top players as are rangers now ( ok not top players but good SPL ones ) alongside utd ,barca ,madrid and the 2 milans we are one of the biggest clubs in the world , look at what FSG have turned us into ! , being outbid by the likes of spurs and other smaller teams , a new manager left with 2 strikers because they wouldn’t pay 6m . 6m not 20 or 30 , but 6 poxy million .
i said the good players will still come , yes now they will but not in a year or 2 years when FSG have completely turned us into a mediocre club by their lack of spending
Completely disagree with you about Allen, he is not just a neat and tidy player, he is intergral to the system that Rodgers is installing. He will be the heartbeat in the middle keeping things ticking over, retaining possession and building. As Rodgers has said himself, we are getting to where we want to be in terms that the defecne and middle 3 are retaining the ball and moving it well, we are simply awaiting more patience in the front 3. therefore 15m price tag is largely irrelevant as Allen was simply a must buy (who is a very different player than lucas and spearing).
Whilst I agree that FSG should really have had more options, especially as the window was drawing to a close, I disagree that we should have paid over the odds. We are led to believe that Fulham wanted double what we offered for Dempsey and actually sold for less to Spurs. Why should we pay over the odds? If Sigurdsson agreed to join swansea for £x and then doubles his demands when us and Spurs are in then why should we pay over the odds? This is what the club ended up doing last year and has been roundly criticised. In fact it was probably the business last summer that burnt the fingers of FSG this summer.
Hmmm you appear to have a more intimate knowledge of the clubs finances and dealings than me so if it is true that Aurelio was on a contract and not a pay as you play deal then that is furthe rproof that the player dealings at the club and contracts was way out of control. Whilst not a FSG sychophant I will give them credit for Sahin, they took on Arsenal for Sahin and won. Do you think for a minute if Arsenal were the only team interested in him they wouldnt have signed him? The fact they lost him provokes the automatic ‘we didnt really want him/not on that type of deal’. Lets give credit where credit is due.
Net spending is very misleading here I feel as is ‘we saved on wages so that should have freed up money’. Nobody really knows the state of the clubs finances besides the fact that the club could no longer afford the large wages of fringe players. whilst admitedly the net spending is fairly low I find it difficult to criticise at this moment in time as I have no idea what the finances are. What I will suggest is that now the wage bill has been trimmed and so on the club finds itself for the first time under FSG on a plateau they feel comfortable to build on and therefore I would suggest that their actions in both January and next summer will provide a better indication of their intentions.
Although, like many reds, I could and should have done more against H&G, and I remain in debt to those reds who really went out of their way, I was never an apologist for them, but I find it baffling as to this moment in time FSG are being directly compared. The comparison at present seems wholly unfair this only into their time here. Remain scepitcal yes, question mistakes yes but it seems some are picking an unnnessecary fight. I think I read from Andy Heaton on twitter and I quite agree, we weaken our own standpoint and support by picking unnessecary fights.
As for Henderson I dont think we are going to agree on him, but I think you are being rather unfair on a 22 year old who has spent a lot of his time out of position. Also I think you are doing Hearts a huge disservice and in a way are being disrespectful to them. This is a cup competition and a perceived underdog will more often than not raise their game against bigger opposition and we certainly saw that. Dont forget in recent years we have been knocked out of cup competitions by league 2 opposition. I have far from low standards but can only judge on what I see and I saw a player played in position play very well against a determined and dogged opposition. Can he perform against big teams? well yes, we saw that at Anfield against Chelsea but no doubt you will do him a disservice and say ‘yeah but they didnt care about that match’. Did you have silly thoughts about Lucas after he first signed as well?
hmmmm when were Milan relegated in recent history?? I presume you mean Juventus unless you are referring to the 1980’s, but that might just be my awful football knowledge. Of course Liverpool can attract big names, there is no doubt there but it is difficult to compete with the clubs that can a)offer CL and b) can offer huge wages. Liverpool do not have sugar daddy’s and have to act appropriately with wages. For arguments sake say we signed RVP on the deal UNited did. Not only does that give us the first player at the club to earn over 200k a week but alo has the knock on effect for other players at the club to start demanding more money and new arrivals to demand more money. Unfortunately players do not sign for the Liverpool name alone and the top top players want the money we will
simply never pay, and quite right too. Also Im not sure Spurs outbid us at all, I believe the club only offered, rightly or wrongly, what they believed a player was worth, perhaps spurs thought differently.
im not going to go over the points previously discussed again , i dont see the point , you were right about 1 thing , i didnt want lucas in the team for his first 2 years and he shouldn’t have been , he wasnt good enough then , so why play someone not good enough ? anyway he proved everyone wrong ( nobody else thought he was good enough either )
btw i apologise i did say milan not juventus
having read this and the joe cole article , i really dont believe you have a) the knowledge b) the understanding of football or c) the passion of a red to be writing articles for this site.
your not from liverpool are you ? im not saying people from outside liverpool are not true fans , but i think you lack the feeling and perception fans have at the moment . have you read the spirit of shankleys statement to FSG ? ( if you have ,how can you disagree ? ) have you seen or heard firsthand what the fans are saying in the supporters websites or on the terraces ?i dont think you have
i like many others live and breathe LFC ( every day not once or twice a week ) and i have been in a bad humour since last week , not because we didnt sign dempsey ( i thought we should be signing better anyway ) , its because we realised for sure what FSG are . and that we are facing many years of turmoil and mediocrity.
FSG are the same as the glaziers , the only difference is utd already had the building blocks for success built , we dont . who ever heard of a benevolent yank ?they dont exist .
LFC fans are famous for patience and supporting the team . i agree with that , i have always supported the players , even the likes of lucas , i would never boo a player trying his best ( diouf was the only exception ) . and i think all our managers should be given time and patience ( i got behind hodgson even though i think he was the worst thing to happen to us since m thatcher )
but i will not blindly support owners who clearly do not have our best interests at heart , aston villa fans can jump up and down and say ” but were a big club , this is not fair ” well im sorry you are not a big club anymore . are liverpool ? we were 4 years ago . are we right now ? probably , but 3 or 4 more years of lack of spending and mediocrity , we wont be .
your (out of touch) apathy is the main reason i dont think you should be writing for this site , the blind trust ( inconceiveable after h+g) in FSG . the “were moving in the right direction ” attitude . the naivity in believing super rich american businessmen . its not shared in general by the people on merseyside but it is lapped up by the armchair fan .
you seem like a nice guy and i wish you well but i do believe the 2 articles i mentioned were total rubbish and i wish you would consider giving up writing as it just helps encourage apathy and not passion
Bob you have indeed brought a smile to my face really. I have written many articles on this site and have actually been overwhelmed with the positivity I have received both in comments and messages left to me on twitter, but it is entirely your right to disagree with my opinions and challenge what I write, in fact I do enjoy a good discussion when someone disagrees with me as much as a discussion when someone agrees. i think your comments about me, my dedication to the reds, my passion are unfounded and unfair really, as you know nothing about me. I havent once raised anything personal about you but so be it.
I still think you missed the point entirely behind the Joe Cole piece, it was written to spark conversation about the issue surrounding the lad and to that extent it worked. You didnt like that one or this one but thats cool with me as we are talking about it. yet I am left wondering whether you have properly read them or not as Im not sure how this article suggests a ‘blind faith’ in the owners, in fact the very first paragraph is written as a disclaimer to the contrary!
Whilst I do not blindy follow FSG and think they are utterly wonderful and the best thing since slice bread I fail to see how you have compared to the Glazers! a family who plunged a club into debt and take personal loans and money out of the club to service other debts. As far as I can tell FSG cleared us of debt in the first instance and there is not a huge amount to suggest they are doing anything other than building the club for the future. Yes they have made mistakes and are in no way infallible but to date have been opena nd far more transparent than H&G. There is a certain amount of trust issues between reds and the owners and that is understandable but I refuse to jump onto an anti-fsg bandwagon without good reason, I fail to see how this is ‘lapping up’. You call this apathy I can this rational. if by this point next year we havent seen significant investment in the team, star players leave and no change in stadium plans then this will change my mind.
I had maintaind time and again our biggest problem never was the players but having the wrong owners and subsequently manager. Now lets see :
FSG:
Its never easy to compete in the BPL and we could see hundres of millions even billions are spent to challenge for the title. Now even the likes of Sunderland had outspend us just to improve their squad. Is FSG that naive to think spending 100 mill (albeit by the wring manager who overpays) in a little more than one season would turn us into world beaters. They also tend to say we need time. Well its has been more than 20 years since we last won the league. We do not have much time. Our rivals are dissapearing ionto the horizon fast. Oh and what happen to that Stadium? FSG tends to c**k up when it comes to managerial appointments, first it was a has been and then a rookie with no winning track record. In short FSG had no idea how to make an institution like LFC work. Why bid for us in the first place? FSG most notable skills these days is to offer great sounding PR statements, much like those cowboys.
BR:
It’s great to have a philosophy but if do you have to implement it at once and be inflexible about it even if its clear your players either can’t play that way or takes a long time to adapt. Is it any wonder we have our worse start in 50 years? Forget about CL candidates. We are now relegation candidates and its all down to BR.
The solution is clear, relace the owners and managers with the right ones, LFC would prosper.
replace the manager after 3 league games? wow! not a lot really to say to that is there.
maybe we should have let BR go after the pre-season itself? Yeah, perfect way to move forward.
hahaha in fact I heard Rodgers lost a 5-a-side game at Melwood on his 2nd day in charge! it was clear then he wasnt up to it!
Wait for all the Rodgers(not lfc fans but rodgers fans) to come out and defend their man vehemently..even though the results so far speak for themselves.
All these new signings are fine but the need for a finisher was evident since last season and it has percolated to this season as well, and i believe this was not fully addressed at all.A good finisher will not have come cheap but to ensure the progress it is a much needed signing and we just haven’t done that. That is more or less why most Liverpool fans like myself feel disappointed.
completely agree with you, we needed an established and recognised goalscorer. lets hope FSG have learnt from this
Respond to me too Tim ! 😀
Just kidding, good to see how you care about the response your articles generate.
hahahah here you go!
it shows a passion I am apparently lacking! Dont think Bob likes me!
I liked your post before, and agree, as much fun as it seems to be spending your sugar daddys money on a hazard or a tevez I would rather we ran the club correctly and retained our identity. Its no surprise that Skrtel and Suarez resigned for us becuase of who we are. Can you imagine Torres/hazard/tevez/aguero etc resigning if they finished 8th?
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and you are no exception.
Your opinions are very much rooted on reality and make sense, you should and must keep writing!
The previous ownership has left such a stigma that for a good number of fans it is difficult to judge ‘yank’ owners objectively, but absolutely in not doing so we only hinder the progress of the club. Again people will question whether this is ‘progress’ or not, I hold that till now it has definitely been progress and have not lost the trust in owners.
Sure what happened last Friday was not right and was not done right, but anyone looking objectively will know that work is going on for the betterment of the club, without doubt.
just one quick point about FSG . they ‘ stole ‘ liverpool from the other cowboys for 300m , probably about a third of the proper price . so they have nearly a billion pound asset which they got for less than half price and since then have not spent damn all net , im not going to even get started on the stadium issue .
i do like you tim , i like the way you reply to your critics and sycophants equally and dont hide when criticised , however i dont think you should be writing articles for the reasons i have stated . apathy is not a commodity that should be spread .
by not answering my inquiry i presume i was correct in you not being from merseyside ? again there is nothing wrong with that , i just feel you might not understand the vibe , feeling and perception of the majority of the fans in liverpool right now.
I dont really care how they acquired the club the main point is that they took it away from H&G and removed the debt from the club. None of us know what state the club was in when they took over and since, but a by selling Kuyt, Maxi and Aquilani alone this summer they have saved around the £300k mark per week which is a frightening amount for any club on 2 fringe players and a chap who barely played for the club. There has had to be actions taken on and off the pitch to stabilise the club before we can move forward and i would suggest that we are at that point now. the average age of the squad is 25.7, the third lowest in the league with a wage bill more appropriate to that and when we are.
I dont particularly want to comment on the stadium issue as with everyone else I know nothing. I would suggest that nothing will be announced until it is set in stone and to date I dont believe FSG have deceived us in any particular way to warrant the levels of mistrust they are receiving. As i have said i will reserve my comments on this matter until this time next year, as if we havent herad anything by then, then questions truly need to be asked.
Well I am glad you like me Bob, I am a lovely guy! haha but I still dont understand how I am being apathetic at all? I may be biased but judging by other comments attached to this article and those I have received on twitter, this is actually a realistic piece with a positive vibe congratulating FSG where they deserve it in terms of Allen, Sahin, Borini, Yesil and Assaidi as well as renewing the contracts of Suarez and Skrtel and calling them to question on aspects they have blundered at. as I have said credit where credit is due. Unfortunately FSG find themselves in a situation that the fanbase is deeply untrusting in any ownership and an increasingly knee jerk reaction to the slightest fault. I would appreciate it if you could let me know why you think I have been apathetic rather than realistic in that its not all doom and gloom I will happily take it on board for future pieces.
I simply forgot when replying to your last response where to be fair you had a couple of unwarranted digs! Im not hiding where I am from its in my bio! Im originally from Shropshire just down the road and my employment has taken me to Leeds. As I dont live in Liverpool right then perhaps you are right and I dont get the vibe happening on the streets of Liverpool at this moment, but then i dont claim to, I am merely putting my thoughts on the matter.
I have supported Liverpool football club all my life and personally speaking have a lot to be thankful to the club for. throughout my life I have attended as many games as possible which in the last few years have been regretebly less and less as I have a young family who quite rightly take my time and money. To question my passion is to hit a nerve particularly when we have never met. Writing these pieces is something I do in my spare time as I love wirting/talking about Liverpool football club and football as a whole but unfortunately you dont like my stylings, but thats your choice, so i will politely decline your offer to stop writing thank you.
in that case ill look forward to your next piece , try and swallow a bite of reality before you write it please .
i could talk or moan for hours about FSG , but i know you will respond to each point with diplomatic nonsense straight from the FSG propeganda machine ( because you actually believe it ) . anyway ill make it brief – new manager i can live with , not giving him proper money to compete with the top 5 – disgraceful .
12m net spent ( probably way less with the fees for the likes of silva , loan money for spearing , carroll etc ) , so we finish 8th , a long way from top 4 , they get a new manager in and all the other clubs spend more , and they expect to get into the top 4 . explain that one ? nonsense absalute nonsense .
they say the funds are there to compete with the best , but thats a blatant lie .dempsey sigurdsson and probably many others who we dont know about are proof enough . they made a big song about spending 100m last year , thats untrue more like 20m net .
apart from the lack of funding , there is the incompetence , hiring comolli , overpaying for players ( not just a litttle , probably double in carroll henderson and downings case ) still no plans for stadium ( blatant stalling tactics ) , sacking dalglish having paid all that money for HIS type of player , hiring new manager with totally different style ( which means getting rid of half the players just bought ) , not backing the new manager and leaving the squad in a pathetic state going into a season expecting them to come top 4 . its a bad joke ! but not funny , you and i both know every other club is laughing at us now .
im not going to go into individuals but anyone who thinks the team and squad is anywhere close to last years is mad . either that or not very knowledgeable .
ive supported LFC since 1990 and im not one for over reacting , have supported all managers and had patience while they build new teams . but im totally disillusioned and depressed like never before because i know things wont be ok til FSG are gone and that could take years .
ive read FSGs recent statements and your articles so you dont need to repeat your blind faith and chirpy optimism in responding to each point .
The fact the people at the club can’t see the points you have just highlighted is the reason I and many other fans are totally disillusioned with the whole club at this moment.Great knowledge you have of the club,well done
i pretty much agree with bob on nearly all his points , this is a stupid piece
Please do explain, while I Bob and I disagree on much we chat about it. I would love to see your opinions on why this is a ‘stupid’ piece. Am I overly optimistic and apparently apathetic as Bob suggests or am I trying to present a non knee-jerk rational response in what can at times be choppy pessimistic waters. I challenge what I think needs challenging such as the striking options but also give credit where it is us in the likes of Allen and sahin. For me FSG have levelled out this summer and gave a big year, this time next year of we have not seen squad investment and progress on the stadium it is a different story. As fans we need to pick our fights to maximise their effectiveness.
Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hepamred by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass’ favor.