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View from the Kop

Pros and Cons from the Bridge

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WELL that is that for another weekend of footie.

Who would have thought on Friday that Messer’s Webb and Carragher would play such big parts in the score line at Stamford Bridge?

Although, I must say Howard’s first touch is appalling!

In the past I have been accused of being far too positive, which somehow makes me less of a fan apparently, so what I wanted to do in this piece was present some observations from the game that will provide my thoughts into the pluses and negatives that can be taken.

Positivity woooooooo…

1. Taking a step back and looking at the result from yesterday will surely show that it was a cracking point. We travelled to the home of the current European Champions, high after a late winner midweek, fighting again for the title and boasting an attacking front four of Torres, Hazard, Mata and Oscar.

Even behind that front line they had a solidity of experience and class in their core. Looking to their bench, with the likes of Marin, Sturridge and Moses, they are spoilt for (expensively gathered) choice. In comparison, our side is rebuilding the team. Our confidence and our form – through circumstance – find us with a very young side including the likes of Sterling, Wisdom and Suso who are making their break through. To travel here and get a point, almost snatching 3, is a fantastic result for where we are.

2. It is fairly clear that things were not right first half (more on that later), but the changes installed by Rodgers, for and during the second half, show that he is big enough to recognise his own errors and how to correct them. He was able to highlight what was not working and where we were being overrun, and tactically out manoeuvre Di Matteo to change the tide somewhat. Please don’t take this as a direct comparison as it is not, it is merely an observation. Remember 2005, a certain Spaniard made an error of judgement in the first half of a game, changed it at half time and the rest is history.

3. I make that 6 games unbeaten in the league, which is a start. They say that winning is a habit and using that logic, not losing is also a habit. The psychology of football is a curious and often fragile thing and momentum is crucial for form and confidence. Watching the Villa v United game on Saturday reminded me of the 2008/09 Liverpool side. Countless times I watched that team with the greatest midfield in the world perform comebacks (for me against City was most memorable as it was the day I brought my Daughter home from the hospital for the first time), and that season, form was high, confidence was high and the continued momentum from only losing twice in the league really drove us on.

We can only rebuild one piece at a time and in my mind corners are being turned, albeit slowly. Towards the end of last season we looked dead and buried after conceding, yet this season we are starting to show that fight of old.

Another great example of momentum is in Brad Jones. He came across as very fragile and nervous deputising for Reina last season, but now he has had a run in the first team he has grown in confidence with each appearance, and made some cracking saves yesterday.

4. Luis Suarez. Need I say more? Nope, but I will so don’t worry! Every team needs star players, and in him we have a world class talent. Much is made of him not being a finisher and not having the return of goals expected, but isn’t he top scorer in the league? The false opinion of Suarez not being able to finish is purely based on how many chances he creates for himself!

If he had the clinical finishing ability Hernandez appears to have then he would have at least 20 by now. What must, must, must happen next is that he is reinforced with quality; not only to maximise his talents but to reassure that we are heading the right way.
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Negativity booooooooooo…

1. By merely taking a glance at the team sheets for the game yesterday shows how far we have fallen from the Benitez days. Whereas we can’t compete with the financial muscle of Abramovich, our signings at that time remained competitive and allowed us to enter on a level footing with established superstars. This current squad has promise and provides glimpses of a rosy future, but that will remain a distant dream unless we sign players for today as well as tomorrow.

Yes it was a good point, but the game clearly highlighted that our squad is clearly lacking. If we are to progress and move forward then investment is needed from the owners. Rodgers is their man and they need to back him in January and beyond.

2. Yes we are six unbeaten in the league, but only two of these are wins. We also only have 2 points from a possible 12 against the Champions League teams this season.

The realisation here is that the squad is not good enough as it stands in terms of the limitations, numbers and experience bring. I fully believe that there are members in our squad who will grow in the coming years into top players but we also need that top level performer now. The club needs investment in January, and not the frugal ‘not a good market’ approach. It is no coincidence that our best player this season cost in the £20m price range. More often than not money will bring quality.

If we can build that solid core, like the team of Rafa in 2008/09, the following transfer windows will only require tinkering. If we don’t spend, it heaps more pressure on the team and manager and could be a negative sign for our current stars.

3. The first half yesterday was a worry. Implementing a new formation with an inexperienced centre-back, and a centre-back who hasn’t had many minutes this season is risky. Trying this without Lucas, is again risky.

We were well beaten in that first half and fortunate to trail by only one goal (an individual error again). We looked weak in the centre, and although I’m a huge fan of both Allen and Sahin, neither can perform that Lucas role, and in attempting to do so takes away from their natural game.

4. Luis Suarez. What is that collective WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?? I hear? Don’t worry, he is not the negative; the fact that there is only Luis Suarez is the negative.

There is a stat out there that shows without him we would be bottom. Ridiculous stat on a lot of levels, but what it does highlight is the lack of goals from elsewhere and the lack of support. We have been burnt in the past with an over reliance on one striker, and we need to address this issue sooner rather than later. Wheels need to be in motion now, we can’t afford to wait until Jan 31st.

The stark warning to FSG is that the murmurings of discontent now will explode into life should we have a transfer window repeating the last one.

5. My last point may be seen as controversial due to who it concerns, but I am a human being first and foremost so balls to it. I myself suffered a really nasty leg injury that put paid to my football playing days (pictures of it available on request!) so a negative from the game for me was seeing that injury to Terry, not nice.

Should he have been playing? No, his ban should have been at least equal to Suarez, and in my mind, more. Do I like him? Not at all, for me he is the epitome of what is wrong with the modern game. But nasty leg injuries are horrible for many reasons so I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

I hope I haven’t bored you, and if I have then hopefully insomnia isn’t a problem anymore. Let me know what you think we can class as positives and negatives as we move forward, and why. Come find me on twitter @timdibs
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46 comments

  • clive halsall says:

    rubbish performance again until 70 min . inept boring negative are the only way to describe BRs tactics . he is out of his depth

    joe allen is one of the worst players ive seen wear a LFC shirt . inept defensivly , physical power of a 9 year old , all he does is pass it 5 yards sideways or backwards . he didn’t even have the courage to shoot yesterday when the chance came . gutless and weak – he left our defence vulnerable again and again

    sahin too is not liverpool standard . BR has his little favourites , allen and sahin . they must go if we are too improve

    • Tim Williams says:

      you say rubbish performance Clive, but at the 70 mins you quote we were only 1 down at the home of the European champions who boast a forward 4 that cost upwards of £100m and wages to match.

      your criticism of Allen is harsh, not his best game for sure, but played out of position and in a midfield overrun in the first half. You question his physicla prowess but he bossed both yaya toure and fellaini this season.

      to question Sahin’s ability again overly harsh, he is a very very good player but needs support from the lucas type of player.

    • kirbyking says:

      spot on clive lad . we need lucas back and a new midfielder in january to play alongside him . sahin may be getting up to speed with PL , he cant be that bad real signed him . but allen is totally hopeless

      great to see carra back playing well . we could have won if rodgers was a bit less defensive

      • Tim Williams says:

        lucas back is key to improve in a number of areas.

        disagree with your allen point but there we go, I dont think we will find common ground there. however….

        I find it interesting that you think Rodgers was too defensive. Why do you say that? I would suggest that the 352 formation was to give defensive security whilst allowing johnson and enrique license to push on and try and peg back the likes of mata and hazard. it didnt work out so we went to 4 at the back. would love your thoughts on this…

    • kumber says:

      are you describing xavi or allen.clive

  • Tim Williams says:

    I meant to add this at the end of my piece:

    AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SIGN THIS AND GET YOUR MATES TO SIGN THIS https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40925

  • Brad says:

    Great analysis but I’m commenting today due to the silly comments I’ve seen around today regarding Joe Allen. Joe is one of our net players. He had an ok game yesterday against probably the most technically brilliant midfield in Europe and all of a sudden he’s not good enough. I guess my surprise is the lack of football knowledge of some Liverpool fans-it’s shocking. Sahin also hasn’t quite lit up the Prem yet but he is an incredibly talented footballer. Game time will bring him back to his best and it will come soon. TO simply slate him and say he’s not good enough is absurd but no surprise-they did the same with Lucas and many others. With fans like these who needs enemies-they can absolutely stop a players growth and confidence. Strange, all my mates support all of the Liverpool players, where do these people come from that slate all of our players? Look at Enrique-he’s been getting all the grief lately and yesterday he probably saved the match for us.

    • Tim Williams says:

      Agree with you there Brad. i think Allen is a quality player, but has faded a little in recent weeks, but can we be suprised? I would suggest he has played more minutes than most and is in a position he is not used to in order to cover for Lucas.

      As for Sahin, I have no doubt he is quality and given time will come good. The problem here is that he is only on loan. A loan signing needs to hit the ground running really. I for one hope we get sahin permanently and he is given time to adjust and then can really show what he is all about. I also think he is missing a Lucas type player.

      Its funny the reaction of some LFC fans, i wrote a piece for a Hungarian Chelsea supporters website answering questions on Liverpool and got a really good, positive response, yet i have been properly slated by fellow reds for my outlook! funny old world

    • simon says:

      ha ha Tim caught you again ! stop responding to your own articles . i know its you . its laughable
      you were called ” positive “last week

      • Tim Williams says:

        ??

        • simon says:

          Brad is you , its not the 1st time you pretended to be someone so you can praise your own articles

          sad really

        • Tim Williams says:

          What have you based this on Simon?

          Of all the things I have been accused of in my life this is the strangest! I write articles as I enjoy footie debate whether someone agrees with me or not.

          is it strange that perhaps there are some people who agree with my opinions? if you check my mentions on twitter you would find a lot of people agree, they just dont leave comments here, but then hey, perhaps I just create lots of different twitter accounts and tweet myself to make me feel good!

          quality counter argument that lad

        • simon says:

          nobody else has the exact same braindead opinions as you , virtually identically worded too , i checked some of your previos articles and comments to be 100 % sure.

          it is you , its obvious

          so was ” positive ” last week

          get a grip , stop trying to sway opinion

          i know you will keep denying it , but all regular readers know you do it

        • Tim Williams says:

          well if that isnt case closed and completely guilty i dont know what is! well done you.

          Im not sad enough to warrant creating an alias to sway opinion and boost ego. i write to create debate, and whether you like it or not debate is created.

          instead of silly games and silly put downs why dont you challenge my ‘braindead’ opinions and present your thoughts to try and convince me that my opinions are wrong?

          or is it easier just to sit and type what you type?

        • Tim Williams says:

          and whilst you are typing what you are typing, take a second to sign up to the Anne Williams petition please and tell all your chums to as well.

      • Shibashis says:

        FYI, this article by Tim is a well grounded one. yes, he is positive, so do many chose to be in life and that is not a crime.
        I would have taken pretty great offence if it was suggested to me that I comment on my own articles assuming another identity, please, that is just callousness. Disagreeing is one thing, but accusing someone of dishonesty, bring proof before you point such a finger.

        • simon says:

          check out his previous articles and comments concerning joe allen and last weeks comments on another article by ” positive ” . the wording , phrases and opinions are all the one person . just look before you judge .

          its not callousness , i think its dishonest what he is doing and it really is obvious if you check it thoroughly

        • Tim Williams says:

          Simon give it up lad, you are making baseless accusations and detracting from an article based on football, lets get back to the football chat.

          I don’t care if you agree with me or disagree with, it makes no difference to my life, I don’t sit up at night crying because someone I have never met doesn’t like my opinion. If you want to believe I create pseudonyms to make positive replies on my own threads then so be it, your choice! My conscience is clean lad!

          But you have avoided the question is posed before (shock). You obviously disagree with my poin of view, so explain why! Convince me that I am wrong and you are right!

          Oh, and have you signed the petition?

      • Jimmy Areabi (Editor) says:

        Simon, really… enough of the amateur detective stuff. If you wish to continue down that route I suggest you focus your powers on comments from ‘LFCkeano’ aka ‘martina’ aka numerous other names on my site.

        My writers don’t need to participate in such childish games on here. The whole point of ‘opinion’ piece articles are just that – they are an opinion. Many, like yourself, may disagree with that opinion, but don’t be arrogant enough to presume everyone else agrees with your own.

    • Jack The Lad says:

      I couldn’t agree with you more Brad. Well said!

  • bob says:

    once again another piece of biased stupidly positive nonsense . you see things the way you want not the way they are !

    your defense of the hapless allen is looking more and more ridiculous every week , he is not being played out of position – its where he played for swansea . ‘ outmuscled toure + fellaini ‘ ha ha ! now you are showing your mind of fantasy . he couldn’t outmuscle my 7 year old . he is not liverpool class and most fans are seeing it that way now . ive even heard a lot of people asking for henderson to be played there instead of him

    your defense of rodgers too is looking more stupid every week . once again he got the wrong tactics , the wrong formation and line up . he is out of his league , his stubbornness in continually playing rubbish like allen and sahin are ruining our chances . he still inflicts this sideways boring brand of football on us

    dont you get bored continually making excuses ? continually defending sub standard people ? its all you ever do . dont bother replying with more excuses and flights of fantasy . as i said last time i have lost all respect for your silly opinions and wont waste any more time in debate with someone so blind

    • Tim Williams says:

      Aaaahhhhhh bob, I have missed you! Just a quick question though, did you read the article or just straight to comments? The article contains both positives and negatives!

      I actually think Henderson in that holding role for the time being is worth exploring and would free Allen up.

      I don’t continually defend I present counter arguments, such as your accusation that Allen plays a sideways brand of football where is reality he has played 3x as many passes forwards than he has sideways! Don’t let facts get in the way though. Did Allen have a good game on Sunday? Not especially, but quite a number struggled in that first half against an excellent opposition, lets not forget who we were playing.

      As I have asked another Bob, given the late pullouts of skrtel and shelvey what would you have done? Personally I can see the thinking behind the formation we started with but as I said it didn’t work and BR changed it, credit where it is due perhaps?

  • LFC Dean says:

    Very one sided blinkerd article in my opinion , We were not good at all. Rodgers has made us a poor midtable team and it is boring to watch . Bring RafaB home . I also agrree with above , Allen and Sahin out – Shelvey and Suso or even Coady in .

    • Tim Williams says:

      You think blinkered? Despite pros and cons? Fair enough! Some questions…

      1. You think BR is solely to blame for where we are?
      2. Rafa comes in tomorrow, how long you give him?

  • bellers says:

    quit the excuses will ya . we are 13th in mid nov . rodgers is clueless and ALL of his signins are tat . kop on

    BR out FSG out
    we are liverpool – this is not acceptable

    • Tim Williams says:

      There are no excuses bellers, but there is a bigger picture and at times people new to step back and see it.

      But running with your comment, FSG and BR have gone….who comes in? How long do you give them before calling for their head?

  • Jack The Lad says:

    Great article Tim! I enjoyed the read anyway. Even though it’s not exactly a ‘positive’, but you forgot to mention Carragher keeping Torres in his pocket all afternoon. I couldn’t handle it if ‘that’ scored against us. Sorry about the dreadful bitterness. 🙂

    • Tim Williams says:

      Haha cheers lad! Yeah Torres didn’t do a great deal did he. Half the player he was! In a way sad to see

  • horrid henry says:

    awful performance that proves 2 things both of which this stupid biased article conveniently avoids , rodgers doesn’t have a clue what he is at , stupid formation . and allen really is a second rate no hoper
    every article u write is rubbish , straight from the FSG propaganda depatment if ur a journalist u should be ashamed , if ur just a fan u should stop trolling these sites

    • Tim Williams says:

      I’m trolling?? Well given your constructive criticism I must be!

      Let’s try and make this a conversation for adults…

      You obviously disagree with my positives and haven’t read my negatives. Fine, no problem. Some questions for you Mr Horrid…
      1. Given the late withdrawals of skrtel and shelvey how would you have set up?
      2. Did you think the formation change in the second half influenced the game?
      3. Do you think that 1-1 was a good result?

  • LFCkeano says:

    i dont know if what simon said is true, but it does loo k suspiciously like u, if it is shame on u

    anyway opinions , yours is looking more foolish with every game goes by . you remind me of hitlers generals in his last few days . loyal but stupid . rodgers is clearly not the right man , i live and work in the city and nearly all fans i talked to can see he is making us worse . allen is just a joke , he reminds me of christian poulsen . you probably defended him too . the league table does not lie and no amount of excuses can make it seem ok

    • Tim Williams says:

      Hahaha wow, in the last 24 hours I have been accused of inventing an alias to boost my own ego and now being akin to a nazi! Incredible really!

      Despite previous failings I will try again…..

      Guten tag LFCKeano, I see you disagree with the positives and don’t read the negatives in the article, ah well. To engage in conversation, remember that? Here are some questions….

      1. Your wish is granted, Rodgers is out….who replaces!
      2. How many games are they given?
      3. Despite your constructive criticism of ‘Allen is a joke’ elaborate, change my mind on him…
      4. The league table does not lie in my opinion is a term to be used at the end of the season no?

      • LFCkeano says:

        i dont really want to get into a discussion on it , ive read your comments before, you make excuses and dont acknowledge truth – not someone i want to discuss with

        ive said my piece , ill leave it there

        • Tim Williams says:

          Such a disappointment, you have read my comments but nobody has read yours!

          Personally I like to embrace other people’s opinions and chat about them. I would love to hear your opinion, I would love to hear what you believe is the truth I am missing! I don’t proclaim to be an oracle or infallible, I merely present my opinion. Please present yours! In fact the editor of this site is always looking for new people to write who have different opinions, why don’t you write a piece on where you think we are at?

    • Jimmy Areabi (Editor) says:

      You know your own tricks best eh, ‘LFCkeano’ / ‘martina’, and however many other names you have posted under on the site, to troll my writers. And I should know…

      Why not stand by your own opinion, under your own name, instead of trying to sway the balance of your ‘points’ by assuming other identities?

      • LFCkeano says:

        guilty ! i did i confess . i wont do it again . if only tim would hold his hands up , and there was 1 other writer i saw doing it a few weeks back NP

        • Tim Williams says:

          Poor show lad! I don’t feel the need to adopt an alias to support my opinion, if you disagree that’s fine by me, wont be losing sleep as I am fairly sure other writers on this site wont! Just a little sad that instead if engaging me and challenging my opinion you make up people in order to gang up and continue with this peculiar facade.

          But forgive and forget is the name of this game, so please, if you disagree with my points please tell me why you think I’m wrong…

  • martina says:

    how does this author stand up for joe allen . he is one of the worse players ive seen playing at anfield for 38 years . shocking performance on sunday , only because he is rodgerss boy that he is not subbed

    • Tim Williams says:

      Again, this article wasn’t a joe Allen piece, all my hours stood over a hot keyboard as well! Oh well, we go with what we have….

      I will try this with you Martina and hopefully we can chat nicely and avoid you calling me an ego boosting fraudster or a nazi?!

      Why exactly do you think Allen is poor? Personally I rate, but hey change my mind, convince me that I’m wrong

  • kay says:

    We can talk tactics,money,players,formation,JW Hendry,but, ultimately if we don’t bring Rafa back or another coach of his calibre,we will just remain a mid-table club. Since 2000 it has been realised in football that you can no longer keep a manager for future success,cos what happens after 5yrs if it doesnt work out? Do we start another 5yr project. Rafa won the CL in the first season,Pep won the double,Jose,Klopp,Wenger,Ancelotti to name a few. Guys like Fergie(going 5yrs without silverware,yet having the best budget) would never make the grade in the current game,he still be working somewhere in his hometown… So why as LFC are we trying to be a grooming arena for an unexperienced guy like Rogers? He should do his time like Pep did at Barca and understand the game more thoroughly,no disrespct to Rogers,but, WE ARE LIVERPOOL!!!!BESIDES ANY COACH THAT IS FERGIE-FRIENDLY IS JUST NOT LIVERPOOL… IF FERGIE DOESNT MIND YOU, YOU NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!

    • Tim Williams says:

      Kay, you are an absolute breath of fresh air, thank you. Why do I say this? Well you have an opinion and have expanded on it, supported it and done so in more than a sentence and without linking me to the Third Reich!

      Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with what you have said, let me play devils advocate for a moment….

      Yes rafa won the CL in his first year and it hunk we can all agree he vastly overachieved with the squad he had. As it stands is BR overachieving, under achieving on on par with the squad he has?

      In that first season we struggled somewhat in the league and at this stage in the CL we looked like making an early exit yet we stuck with Rafa,, does is show patience is necessary?

      In reference to the other managers you quoted (and taking nothing away from their achievements) – pep inherited a team at contained xavi, messi and iniesta and was successful; Jose was supported by the roubles of abramovich and allowed FTP spend a lot immediately; ancellotti inherited a good team with the financial backing of abramovich; wenger inherited a strong team and was supported in the market and awarded patience; as for Klopp the much heralded German, is his CV prior to Dortmund a million miles from Rodgers? Klopp was given time and look what he has done.

      The old adage is never go back, so how confident are we that a returning rafa would be a success let alone an instant success that some demand?

      Rodgers has been written off after less than 20 games, would a returning rafa or asn incoming pep be afforded longer because of who they are or afforded less because of who hey are?

      Those reading please remember that the questions raised here are devils advocate!!

      • kay says:

        Thanks Tim. Rafa know the team,when he was given the powers of the academy,HE brought in all these youngsters that are now blooming! He knows the club, the city and above all he has wisdom and humility and i personally feel he is the best Manager in the world when it comes to planning,tactics and knowledge of football. I normally don’t care where i have to look,when i need answers,if looking BACK will give us solutions,LETS LOOK BACK( AT RAFA)

        • Tim Williams says:

          Don’t get me wrong I’m a huge fan of rafa, I never wanted him to leave in the first place! It wouldn’t be an overnight thing either and by the looks of some who comment on here they would be calling for his head (again). The club needs stability and whoever is in charge needs patience and backing from the owners. Personally I don’t think BR has done a great deal wrong when you take into account the bungled transfer window, paper thin squad, low morale and poor form on arrival. Had skrtel not played in tevez, shelvey finished off Newcastle, Lino deny Suarez and so on we would be sitting higher. This isn’t an excuse merely my aspect of reality, would a change of manager have changed those instances? I buy the argument about a different manager bringing a different approach and taking on games differently but do we want ANOTHER managerial change?

  • SandraF says:

    i agree – BR must go . i can accept my beloved club is useless , im even getting used to it . the quality of player we bring in the last 4 seasons is pathetic . but its about entertainment and BRs football is boring . really boring i hate watching it , even if he wssnt useless – he should go for that reason . i called my 11 year old down to watch the anzhi game and chelsea game on tv , he was just playing in his room , he didnt want to watch cause watching pool this season bores him . its sad that rBR is losing fans . it must stop

    • Tim Williams says:

      Interesting point Sandra, and thanks for backing it up. I think the anzhi game was a write off due to the distance to travel and the upcoming game at the bridge. Some questions of you…

      1. Do you think the Chelsea game was boring or it was boring as it took us so long to get started?
      2. If BR left, who would you replace him with?

  • Sid says:

    absalutly we need new manager ASAP – not smart tactics , too young , very bad selections , ruined our hopes in 2 cups , slags off his players in public , very very bad buys in transfer market , doesnt play attacking football , lies in interviews about how good they played . he is a disgrace and is letting down the history and standards of this used to be great club . no one should support him

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