Rodgers So Far: More Boo Than Whoo?
AS the dust settles on another weekend of Premier League football, Liverpool again sit back and think ‘how did we not win that?’ Yet another game goes by in which the boys in Red boss, get sucker punched and then drag themselves to a point.
The issues in the team at present are obvious for all to see, in that we are distinctly toothless up top and despite giving the opposition a dam good gumming (behave), we are not getting what we deserve.
In fact I have come up with a medical name for this phenomenon, ‘Suarez Aside, Goal Shyness’ or SAGS for short. Is this the only issue though? I have sensed levels of discontent with some sections of support that run deeper than our SAGS.
Paying homage to a 90’s film classic (maybe classic is pushing it somewhat), I want to present two arguments, a yin and yang if you will, as we approach what is probably the most important month for on the field matters in recent LFC history. I hope this can stimulate debate, allow people to pick a point of view as it were or perhaps present a third argument. Here goes…diddly do diddly do diddly do (Waynes World anyone? I’m 90’s film crazy today, so much so this piece may be Titanic….ahem…sorry!)
Boooo! Rodgers No
Different weekend same story, this Liverpool side is becoming sadly predictable. We keep the ball and keep the ball but offer nothing to show for our dominance. Newcastle score with their first shot of the game, is that the fourth or fifth time this has happened this year? We then struggle to really open them up until about 10 minutes to go and even then we don’t have the composed finishers of our rivals, god (Him or Fowler) help us if Suarez is injured or banned.
We are Liverpool Football Club, and the start to the season is unacceptable, as is our place in the league. FSG gambled with an inexperienced manager and that gamble hasn’t paid off. We have seen our squad trimmed and the reinforcements barely cover in numbers what we have lost, let alone building the squad. Rodgers signings are at best questionable and he has failed to inspire the established stars to leave their rut of under-performance.
January is massive for the club, it is clear the squad is paper thin as a whole and an established goal-scorer is as essential as fish with chips, but after what we have seen to date can Rodgers really be the man? Can he be trusted with such a huge responsibility that January requires? No, changes need to happen now, an established manager needs to be installed to give the opportunity to assess the squad and place a rocket up FSG collective bottoms.
Rafa is the obvious choice, loves the club and has the pedigree, but in recent days there has been the rumour of a declaration from Guardiola that not only is he ready to manage again but he fancies England. He carries not only the pedigree, but delivers the beautiful game as his Barcelona side have shown. Is Rodgers a bad manager? No, but is he ready for such a big job? No. We are Liverpool Football Club, we are a club that the best arrive at to become legend, we are not a club that uses stabilisers on the metaphorical bicycle that is management. So surely this must be a case of thanks, but no thanks Brendan, welcome home Pep.
Whoooo! Rodgers Yeah
Whilst it is hard to argue against the paper evidence of our league position or our form there is an element of level-headedness needed in turbulent times like this. In our history is our current situation acceptable? No, but this isn’t the right question. Is it understandable? Unfortunately yes.
A brief history lesson shows us that we essentially came within a Macheda-fluke of a title, but instead of investing Rafa was forced to haggle and wheel-deal, seeing the loss of Alonso, the peeing-off of messrs Torres and Mascherano and the replacements fail spectacularly leading to an unsurprising mid table finish. His sacking (something I was against, yet was much called for, and probably by those now wanting him back), heralded the arrival of Hodgson instead of the fan demanded King.
Now Roy isn’t a bad manager, and of teams of a certain level he can overachieve (do England fall into this? haha) but his tenure saw awful players coming in, awful performances matched by awful results, yet we did get rid of the cowboys and the debt. The King finally came home but was he the owner choice or did they simply bow to fan pressure? Who knows. What we do know is that the King wasn’t given enough time to turn it around. His signings struggled yet I amongst others retained faith in him and was upset and dismayed at his dismissal. The club then welcomed Rodgers.
Now in such a short amount of time we have seen four managers, all with very different takes on the game so the club has lacked any sort of stability. Rodgers is the man FSG chose and backed to a point. There has been an improvement on the pitch in performance and what he has managed to achieve with such a young squad is amazing really and has only lacked the results. Whilst Borini has struggled (let’s not forget it took Rush over a year to score his FIRST) both Allen and Sahin have impressed and with the trust placed in the likes of Suso and Sterling surely Rodgers should be offered time? Would a change in management actually help or simply put us at point zero again?
He was let down by FSG in the summer which should result in financial backing in January, and with a man with a set philosophy and a strong belief in what he is doing then time is needed. The clubs success was built on a base of stability, Shankly rode the rocky road, building the club up and then it was passed down in house, as why fix something that ain’t broke?
Stability is key to thrive in this world. The players have clearly bought into Rodgers philosophy but currently lack the final pieces of the puzzle to turn in-game dominance into goals but this can be addressed and it should be Rodgers to finish his own puzzle.
There you go. I have (hopefully) presented two tangible arguments to the same situation. Personally I am a firm believer in the latter argument, the club needs stability and Rodgers needs support in the transfer window. We are close, we are bossing matches and creating chances but lacking that final aspect that can get us those 3 points on a regular basis. We are frustrated after Sunday, yet Sterling once and Shelvey three times spring to mind for opportunities that should have been converted. The time to worry is when these chances aren’t made. Patience, realism and stability is what’s needed, but hey that’s my opinion…..what is yours?
I’m on twitter @timdibs so come find me, and also PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE open this link and sign up, football pales into insignificance compared to this Lady.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40925
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November 6th, 2012
how can anyone defend BRs record . awful . the worst liverpool side since 1966 .
November 6th, 2012
Bigger picture Ken. Question for you though, you have control of the club, what do you do?
November 6th, 2012
get rid of FSG and rodgers obviously
November 6th, 2012
for you maybe! next stage:
1. replace with who?
2. what if we find ourselves in a similar position in 6 months?
November 6th, 2012
dont know what is going on tim , every time i write a reply iof any length , it wont print it
November 6th, 2012
top clubs need top managers to manage top players . top managers change a bad situation with a sub or a tactical move, its called tactical know how . rodgers doesn’t change . so many times under rafa we were out played, but we still managed to sneak a win, especially in europe . rodgers doesn’t know how to win games
November 6th, 2012
as for who ? rafa, hiddink ,klopp . i haven’t really thought about it . a new man would improve things immediately to an extent, but for a bright future we need FSG removed . i i will be bringing it up at next supporters meeting and i would encourage all real fans to do the same .
November 6th, 2012
all good managers I wont disagree with you there, and a short term impact can be a positive one. But the big question here Bob, is what if say Klopp, doesnt have the desired league impact after 10 games? bin him off too?
all well and good wanting rid of FSG, but finding new owners is not easy and the likes of the Abromovichs and Mansours people crave is a rarity no?
November 6th, 2012
i really dont understand your blind faith in rodgers . he has done nothing to deserve it . a top manager will have proven he knows how to bring success ( and won things )and could be afforded more time – because we trust him .
if we hired ian atkins ( back to back promotions , young , positive , pretty football ) or paul lambert ( back to back promotions , young , great 1st season in PL! , more exp than rodgers ) , or even a league 2 manager . would you follow them ? ask for them to be given time ?
November 6th, 2012
I dont have blind faith in him at all Bob, and think wires are crossed here. I refuse to judge him so quickly especially with the mitigating factors that have occurred during his reign to date. Ultimately you are right and he will be judged by results, but not after 10.
My personal impression of him is that I have been impressed with how he has conducted himself, I think he has begun to install a decent brand of football, but this will take time to gel as it would with any manager. Every manager has their own philosophies which take time to install, its very rare this is done with the click of a finger and successful ones build on what is already good. What I would say is that we have been a decent finish away from a much better league position, and for example Shelvey not taking his chances on sunday is not Rodgers fault. If anyone is to blame it is FSG for the debacle end to the transfer window.
So to repeat, I do not have blind faith but I think a manager needs a decent crack of the whip when installed.
November 7th, 2012
Tim, the so called decent brand of football is to pass sideways for half an hour with not much of a clue what to do next in the final 3rd.
His philosophy? What is that Tim? BR inherited everything from his predecessors, from his former Swansea team and playing style right to the LFC’s current batch of younsters.
The point is we do not have to wait 10 games to judge a poser. We can see it almost right from the start. BR does not have any record to speak off.
November 6th, 2012
i hope your not in business tim , your attitude of ‘ its not working but lets give it more time ‘ is ridiculous , nonsensical . we are 12th , dont you understand what this regime is doing to us ?
you didnt answer my hodgson question tim . honestly please
November 6th, 2012
football is a unique beast so can not be compared in that respect to business. constant chopping and changing in football terms is very rarely a good idea.
You need to seperate regime into Rodgers and FSG. For Rodgers, do you actually think as a club we are a million miles away? He has operated a paper thin squad and not obtained the results our play at times deserved. We have paid heavy prices for individual errors and poor finishing rather than an abhorrant style. which brings me nicely to Hodgson…
I didnt want him as manager as I never, unlike some on this very thread, wanted him sacked. Especially with Dalglish declaring his interest in the role it should never have been handed the role. When he was in it he needed to be backed or sacked, he certainly wasnt backed and found himself with new bosses who didnt want him and he had to go.
As for FSG, I can understand your beef and I have my own reservations about them. I think January is a huge month for them. They havebrought in Rodgers with a long term plan, they let him down badly in the summer and need to put their money where there mouth is. I suggest we need 2 strikers (1 at the very least established preferably both) as well as further squad beefing. Deadwood needs to be set free but only after we have brought players in. I would also start looking at the future in terms of GK.
November 6th, 2012
FSG will probably spend 20-30 in january on some 6- 12 m players . good players not top ones . its a drop in the ocean , its not enough , we both know they are in it for the money . they are just wasting our time
a new goalkeeper ? thats strange . goalkeepers dont reach their best til their mid 30s . reina will get better and better . we will however need one because reina will want to play for a team capable of winning things . he like suarez wont stay for many more years
November 6th, 2012
Problem we have Bob is that because of the last few years we are not in a position to attract the truly world class if we end up in competition with those that can offer CL. Should we get someone in, like Suarez it is easier to retain as they can see what kind of a club and fanbase we are.
The problem is our squad needs numbers as well as superstars and FSG are not Abramovich or a Mansour and I would rather they didnt plunge us into debt. Only the super rich are not in it for the money to be fair. But Jan is their time to show us they mean business. Come Feb 1st we will truly know.
When I talk about a keeper, I refer specifically to Butland. i think it is important to bring in a top young keeper even if it is to do what chelsea are doing with Courtois and City did with Hart. Love Reina to bits but he is getting older, we dont want to be left in a situation where we are desperate for a keeper.
November 6th, 2012
why do you care if we get in debt ? hell , lets spend 300m and owe the banks . its not hurting utd and at least we will have a proper team again .
reina is 29 , erm thats young for a keeper . hart is a rare exception because young goalkeepers make too many mistakes and are a waste of money . we did it with james , carson + kirkland . better off buying a top keeper in his early 30s
November 6th, 2012
because i dont want the club to end up like we did in the Crown Court. United have been lucky they have been successful, personally i want my club run properly and reesponibly.
my point is, bring in Butland say and loan him for a few years to build experience. Carson and Kirkland were thrown in the deep end too quickly. Hart got experience at Birmingham on loand and prior to City at Shrewsbury.
November 6th, 2012
the long replies not posting has happened to me before! but it allows me to answer your points bit by bit.
I think your criticism of Rodgers there is harsh after 15 games in all is it? maybe a couple more. It is such a short amount of time how can anybody be sure, lets not forget Rafa had a rocky first season domestically. Also interesting to note on his anniversary, Fergusons first season, 1 win in his first 6, ended 12th, good job they showed patience
November 6th, 2012
ferguson took over a team 19th . it is obvious to anyone that teams need a plan B or C and rodgers wont / cant change a game . we must not let him buy more inferior players in january . his misuse of gerrard is criminal too .
ive already explained before that there are many rich tycoons wanting a club like liverpool . you said before how FSG ‘saved’ us from administration . i would welcome administration rather than FSG . in administration it would give the many hopeful investors a chance to buy liverpool at a knock down price . so what we lose 10 points – like its going to make a difference
i hope there are not too many fans like you out there . you would have us waste precious years ,while the top clubs amble further ahead
you still haven’t answerred my hodgson question
November 6th, 2012
so what if we end up in court , so what if we end up in administration . its better than 6 or 7 years mid table mediocrity with FSG ,and by the time they realise you cant get success without lots of money , and decide to sell – liverpool wont even be considered a big club anymore
November 6th, 2012
thats where we differ Bob, I think the club should be run properly. I dont want the club run like United or even for that matter City or Chelsea.
As you have said before Liverpool is a great club and always will be because of not only what it has achieved but the fans, the atmosphere and the character. I want players to come to liverpool because its liverpool not because its Oily Richmans dollar bill enticing.
November 6th, 2012
well im sorry , but thats just plain stupid ! unbelievably stupid ! you accept second best for your club , because you dont want us to buy the best .
you dont want some rich billionaire to make us great , but you dont mind owners who dont care for your club , taking our money .
ive never heard anything as silly as that !
November 6th, 2012
Where did I say I wanted second best?? Of course I want the best players of course, no doubt but I want the club to retain its soul, what makes it special, what is wrong with that?
In an ideal world I would want the club run by fans for fans, I would want the team filled with star players the club has developed but that won’t happen. Instead I want the club run properly by people who won’t risk the future of the club and invest appropriately! Is that FSG? Jury is out, big month coming up for them
November 6th, 2012
i had thought you were a bit misguided or too trusting tim . i accused you of being apathetic before , i see by your last 2 comments i was right . you lack passion for our club , being happy with a well run club , rather than a rich competitive club .
unfortunately your attitude is common to many of the casual day trippers to anfield . you re wrong to settle for 2nd best . thats not what sport is about . our club really doesnt need fans like you .
i will continue to respond to your predictable articles , not for you but for the other readers , but i wont enter into debate with you again , i really dont see the point . i am genuinely sorry to have wasted so much of my time arguing with you
November 7th, 2012
Bob, you really hit it on the nail with the last one. Passion is the key word. For our great club, good is not enough, we want great, we never settle for 2nd best. Now we are not even 4th or 10th best.
The point is FSG wiping out the debt is a good start but is that the end? They are supposed to do that and be competitive at the same time. That is why we got rid of H&G. As for their apointment BR, well we all know what this poser is all about, don’t we?
November 7th, 2012
well said both you chan and bob . ive read all and agreed fully with all your comments
November 7th, 2012
we got rid of H&G Chan because they loaded the club with high interest debt that was crippling us. Interest only repayments upwards of £60m was what ultimately led to rafa leaving and the likes of alonso, torres and mascherano being sold. Hicks in particular had a notorious history for buying companies using monies secured against the company before selling for a profit. That is what he was doing with our club.
So far FSG are nothing like them. Are they perfect? no Can they improve? yes, are there big questions that need asking of them? of course
November 7th, 2012
hahaha you have made me chuckle Bob you really have. So because I dont want to plunge our club into debt it makes me a ‘casual day tripper’ with no passion. How does plunging the club in debt make us rich? Leeds plunged themselevs into debt and looked what happened to them. portsmouth the same. you can not take United as an example as their marketing machine is vastly superior to any other club, they have been doing it longer and better than anyone.
Would I be happy if Oily richman bought us and invested billions and bought the best of the best? of course I would. Do I want FSG or any other potential owner to borrow money against the club to spend? no, I dont want my club put at risk again. I would happily support Liverpool football club at any level they play out. i want a club that is run well and effectively, whicch means responsibility at board level, maximising all revenue sources and reinvesting back into the team.
Real Madrid spent millions early 2000 assembling the galacticos yet in Beckhams time he won a league? They have again spent millions and are seeing more success now. What if the club plunges itself into debt to buy players, and those players dont work out? a massive risk that could irreparably damage the club, is that something you want Bob? or do you not foresee any problems?
hmmmm there I times I dont think you really read before responding and to make a statement such as ‘our club doesnt need fans like me’, wow! just wow! Poor statement and poor accusation there, we have differing opinions about what the future for the club and although I have numerous ways of responding I wouldnt sink to that level. Liverpool Football Club is a wonderful institution with a vast, varied and passionate support and in my mind all welcoming as long as you are not bringing the club into disrepute with racism, homophobia and so on. Im a positive person with a positive outlook that I put across to challenge the negativity out there. The yin to your yang
November 7th, 2012
wow , you could argue about the colour of s ***e tim . you are senseless and all u do is make excuses
ive already given my opinion , was going to add to it but i think its already been covered by everyone else
BR out FSG out
November 7th, 2012
well s***e can be many different colours! an old house mate reliably informed me of what happened when he drank a lot of blue wkd when bored! try it. also, would it not be boring if everyone agreed with you?
I still want your opinion, you make it clear that BR and FSG should be out. fine. I reiterate my questions to you:
1. Who replaces them?
2. How long do you give them to match your expectations?
3. What if they dont?