AS the dust settles on another weekend of Premier League football, Liverpool again sit back and think ‘how did we not win that?’ Yet another game goes by in which the boys in Red boss, get sucker punched and then drag themselves to a point.
The issues in the team at present are obvious for all to see, in that we are distinctly toothless up top and despite giving the opposition a dam good gumming (behave), we are not getting what we deserve.
In fact I have come up with a medical name for this phenomenon, ‘Suarez Aside, Goal Shyness’ or SAGS for short. Is this the only issue though? I have sensed levels of discontent with some sections of support that run deeper than our SAGS.
Paying homage to a 90’s film classic (maybe classic is pushing it somewhat), I want to present two arguments, a yin and yang if you will, as we approach what is probably the most important month for on the field matters in recent LFC history. I hope this can stimulate debate, allow people to pick a point of view as it were or perhaps present a third argument. Here goes…diddly do diddly do diddly do (Waynes World anyone? I’m 90’s film crazy today, so much so this piece may be Titanic….ahem…sorry!)
Boooo! Rodgers No
Different weekend same story, this Liverpool side is becoming sadly predictable. We keep the ball and keep the ball but offer nothing to show for our dominance. Newcastle score with their first shot of the game, is that the fourth or fifth time this has happened this year? We then struggle to really open them up until about 10 minutes to go and even then we don’t have the composed finishers of our rivals, god (Him or Fowler) help us if Suarez is injured or banned.
We are Liverpool Football Club, and the start to the season is unacceptable, as is our place in the league. FSG gambled with an inexperienced manager and that gamble hasn’t paid off. We have seen our squad trimmed and the reinforcements barely cover in numbers what we have lost, let alone building the squad. Rodgers signings are at best questionable and he has failed to inspire the established stars to leave their rut of under-performance.
January is massive for the club, it is clear the squad is paper thin as a whole and an established goal-scorer is as essential as fish with chips, but after what we have seen to date can Rodgers really be the man? Can he be trusted with such a huge responsibility that January requires? No, changes need to happen now, an established manager needs to be installed to give the opportunity to assess the squad and place a rocket up FSG collective bottoms.
Rafa is the obvious choice, loves the club and has the pedigree, but in recent days there has been the rumour of a declaration from Guardiola that not only is he ready to manage again but he fancies England. He carries not only the pedigree, but delivers the beautiful game as his Barcelona side have shown. Is Rodgers a bad manager? No, but is he ready for such a big job? No. We are Liverpool Football Club, we are a club that the best arrive at to become legend, we are not a club that uses stabilisers on the metaphorical bicycle that is management. So surely this must be a case of thanks, but no thanks Brendan, welcome home Pep.
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Whoooo! Rodgers Yeah
Whilst it is hard to argue against the paper evidence of our league position or our form there is an element of level-headedness needed in turbulent times like this. In our history is our current situation acceptable? No, but this isn’t the right question. Is it understandable? Unfortunately yes.
A brief history lesson shows us that we essentially came within a Macheda-fluke of a title, but instead of investing Rafa was forced to haggle and wheel-deal, seeing the loss of Alonso, the peeing-off of messrs Torres and Mascherano and the replacements fail spectacularly leading to an unsurprising mid table finish. His sacking (something I was against, yet was much called for, and probably by those now wanting him back), heralded the arrival of Hodgson instead of the fan demanded King.
Now Roy isn’t a bad manager, and of teams of a certain level he can overachieve (do England fall into this? haha) but his tenure saw awful players coming in, awful performances matched by awful results, yet we did get rid of the cowboys and the debt. The King finally came home but was he the owner choice or did they simply bow to fan pressure? Who knows. What we do know is that the King wasn’t given enough time to turn it around. His signings struggled yet I amongst others retained faith in him and was upset and dismayed at his dismissal. The club then welcomed Rodgers.
Now in such a short amount of time we have seen four managers, all with very different takes on the game so the club has lacked any sort of stability. Rodgers is the man FSG chose and backed to a point. There has been an improvement on the pitch in performance and what he has managed to achieve with such a young squad is amazing really and has only lacked the results. Whilst Borini has struggled (let’s not forget it took Rush over a year to score his FIRST) both Allen and Sahin have impressed and with the trust placed in the likes of Suso and Sterling surely Rodgers should be offered time? Would a change in management actually help or simply put us at point zero again?
He was let down by FSG in the summer which should result in financial backing in January, and with a man with a set philosophy and a strong belief in what he is doing then time is needed. The clubs success was built on a base of stability, Shankly rode the rocky road, building the club up and then it was passed down in house, as why fix something that ain’t broke?
Stability is key to thrive in this world. The players have clearly bought into Rodgers philosophy but currently lack the final pieces of the puzzle to turn in-game dominance into goals but this can be addressed and it should be Rodgers to finish his own puzzle.
There you go. I have (hopefully) presented two tangible arguments to the same situation. Personally I am a firm believer in the latter argument, the club needs stability and Rodgers needs support in the transfer window. We are close, we are bossing matches and creating chances but lacking that final aspect that can get us those 3 points on a regular basis. We are frustrated after Sunday, yet Sterling once and Shelvey three times spring to mind for opportunities that should have been converted. The time to worry is when these chances aren’t made. Patience, realism and stability is what’s needed, but hey that’s my opinion…..what is yours?
I’m on twitter @timdibs so come find me, and also PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE open this link and sign up, football pales into insignificance compared to this Lady.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40925
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BR has probably the weakest side Liverpool have had for a long time, yet we are within a whisker of winning most matches. All we need are some proven goal scorers and we will be fine.
Yes – but let us not forget that the exits of six first-team players took place on Rodgers’ watch. Dirk Kyut, Maxi Rodriguez, Charlie Adam, Alberto Aquilani, Craig Bellamy and (perhaps the most unforgivable of all) Andy Carroll all left – while the only players of note to come in were Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini. Since leaving, Carroll has been a resounding success at West Ham, perhaps not scoring the goals he would like but causing opponents all sorts of problems (West Ham are in 8th place in the EPL after coming up from the Championship this season). In the meantime, Kuyt is knocking them in for Fenerbahçe (8 goals in 16 appearances) – his goals at crucial moments for Liverpool have been sorely missed this season. Bellamy is one of the reasons Cardiff are sitting on top of the Championship. Aquilani’s ongoing injury problems in Italy since joining Fiorentina point to Rodgers making the right decision in this case, however the loss in depth on account of the other departures is surely one of the root causes behind our travails on the pitch so far this season.
Kuyt, maxi and aquilani had to leave due to their high CL wages, Bellamy left for personal reasons, so I fail to see how Rodgers is held accountable here. Adam didn’t cut it here so best he moved on and yes the Carroll saga was extremely disappointing but you actually lay this entirely at Rodgers door?
Andy Carroll?? how is he gonna help us? he is yet to score for west ham where the team is built around him. Carroll causing problems to opposition defence?? liverpool do that to every teams but fail to score enough. so whats the point in having carroll??
fair point, our problem is not that we arent creating chances, its finishing them. Andy was a loss no doubt as he brings something different.
Dude, a lot of blah blah serving no purpose whatsoever. It is clear to all and sundry that we are headed the right way, We have a bright young manager putting his trust in young players and building a team that (with a couple of very good signings) will hopefully be challenging at the top end in the next 2-3 years. Very unnecessary blog.
A wooo I take it!!
To be fair I agree with you that the thought of Rodgers leaving is ridonckulous but there is a section of support out there that would disagree! I did an article last week following the derby, please go check out the comments and you will see there is an anti-Rodgers feeling. Not with me I hasten to add!
Im irish and most irish and foreigners who are not close to the game and dont know whats really going on support him
But judging by the people i have talked to when travelling over to the games . i would say nearly all liverpool fans from liverpool want him out
Hence the point of the article, to gauge what the opinion is. For example the overall feeling in those that comment here is boooo, but the feedback about the article I get on twitter is woooo,
BR played a major role in the make up of the current squad by letting players leave without have cover for them and wasting money on championship level squad players. I don’t see players like Sterling and Suso achieving their full potential under B.R he brings very little in the way of tactical awareness and experience at this level. B.R is either very niave or just believes his own Bulls**t
Im not ‘blindy defending BR’ here but Kuyt and Maxi had to leave as there increasingly small roles they played last season, their age and their CL wage made them unsustainable, Aquilani never settled and again an unsustainable wage and bellamy left for family reasons, not sure how any of this is out BR’s door. As for bringing players in, does this not fall firmly at the feet of FSG? Ask any manager if they want more players and they will say yes!
Your point about Sterling and Suso is a new one for me, why wont they progress under BR?
i totally agree , we need a manager who has tactical awareness BR out
Ferguson didn’t build a team in one season, it is frustrating but we only have ourselves to blame not signing proven strikers last transfer window. Sign two world class strikers and them see where we stand end of season
We need a goal scorer Luis can’t do it all on his oun FSG should have given him the money for dempsey janurary is too far way the season will almost be over and who ever we do try to but their club will hold us to ransom which means either an unknown joining the club or a has been … No Champs league no big names its as simple as that
We need more goals simple as! Suarez will get a decent amount this year (and miss a couple) but the problem is the top teams have goals from all over, we are far too reliant
January is the big test for FSG and will give us a clear indication of their intentions.
FSG have already stated their intention ,get a cheap manager , not overspend on players (ie not spend much at all ) , lower wages , and charm the innocent fools like u into believing them
Never said I believe them or am pro-FSG. I have highlighted facts and seem to be getting bashed because of it.
if come Feb 1st we havent signed anyone or anyone of note it will be time to speak up, but as it stands they screwed up in the summer but have january to rectify that.
Lower wages, is that not important? How can we be paying bit part players CL money???
hmm, at the beginning i thought, lets give Rogers 10 game to find out whether he has what it takes. 10 PL games later, i am no closer to 50/50.
Arguments for Rogers.
1) Uses youngsters and encourages them to perform
2)Likes to play the ball on the ground
3)Young, ambitious etc…
against
The transfer market was a disaster. Rogers was exposed as clueless. Those who think FSG let him down….hmmm, really? Why was this left on the last few hours of the transfer market?
We are constantly linked with players like Walcot and Daniel Sturridge. One is a non regular at Arsenal, the other a bench warmer. Both established PL players. Rogers needs to start thinking out of the box. Great managers look further afield and find solutions.
Moving on to his playing style. We do pass the ball, unfortunately, in our own half. Stats look good but it masks a different reality.
In my opinion, Rogers is a decent manager. Is he ready for the Liverpool job? Absolutely not. Is he learning fast? Remains to be seen. I’d give him the season, see what he comes up with in January, then verdict time.
For now lets support him and keep the faith.
YNWA
Some players don’t work at at some clubs, Forman couldn’t get a sniff at united but after he left was a much in demand striker!
Erin you are right on some points. Unlike you i am not 50/50. I want 100% BR OUT and RAFA 100% in and i had a confession to make. Like the author suggest i was one of those group that wanted Rafa out and lives to regret that call. Just because of one bad season after a great one we completely ignored the fact that RAFA was :
1) Our 1 true world class manager in recent years.
2) The reason he got the LFC job was because he broke the Barca and Real duopoly in La Liga with a shoe string.
3) Won us CL in his first season and kept us in that competition everyear barring his last season.The FA and League Cup was thrown along the way
4) Did all of point 3 while having to deal with the 2 cowboys.
Because of our impatience with him, we ended up with the 3 clowns after his that is RH, KD and now BR.
Describing BR as clueless is an understatement of the century, you are so kind to him Erin. This is a chap who only claim to fame is to regularly use the word “Philosophy” and write 180 page dossiers. He did all this without a clue on actually how to win games, as long as the game is to his philosohy. Phil Jagielka describe it best when he said ” We are passing the ball around just for the sake of it”. Sad but true. BR wants to play the Barca way but ignored the fact our personnel are not up to it yet.
A lot had been said about the use of youth by BR. Well he is forced to, not because he wants to. Also alot had been said how he shaped the playing style of Swansea. He inherited that team and play, just as how he inherited our youngsters from Rafa.
On transfer most blame FSG for our debacle. They are right but is BR blameless? When we need a proven striker be blew 11 mill on a unproven and misfiring Italian and 15 mill on a midfielder, a deot we are well stocked. All this while knowing money is tight thanks to the blunders of KD wich is well documented.
Clearly LFC although long off its perch, is still a job way to big for BR.
Bring back Rafa and let him finish the job he had started.
Question Chan, given your past impatience, say BR goes and Rafs returns, how long do you give him? I love rafa, but champions league aside 2005 was a tough year domestically, what if we have a similar record after 10 games under him?
we know rafa can do it ,thats diffrence
really? we know it do we?
Not for one second do I doubt Rafa’s talents, love the man, never wanted to go unlike Chan! but nobody can know for sure what will happen. If he came in tomorrow he would need time to shape the squad to his liking and install his playing methodology, like Rodgers is doing now, which will take time.
Do you really think that installing any manager right now would instantly change things? football is not overnight success, it takes time and hard work. Rafa vastly vastly overachieved in 2005 to bring us that wonderful night in Istanbul but domestically it took time for him to get to the point where we seriously challenged (before getting screwed).
Tim, i know where you are coming from and Horrid is right. At least in Rafa we know what he is capable of and he had been there, done that. Do not forget we 4 points away from winning the league in 2009. That is why i said it was a mistake to ask him to leave.
Now turning our attention to BR, which part of him suggest he can bring us places? Even his much vaunted Swansea team was inherited, from Martinez.
Of course we know even with Rafa back, things won’t improve overnight, with the mess that KD and BR left him. But we all know that we would have bottomed up and the only way to go is up. With BR, we know we have a long way to go, down that is.
FSG have taken a major risk in opting for Rodgers with a world-class manager like Benitez sitting on the wings. They should now either support Rodgers to the hilt in the January transfer window (and I mean at a level comparable to that made available to Commoli and Dalglish) or cut their losses and bring in Rafa Benitez (who like Brendan Rodgers will surely require a major injection of funds to rebuild the squad). Either way, there are no two ways about it – the fact that Liverpool overspent to bring in players like Carroll, Downing, Henderson, Enrique and Adam cannot obscure the need to invest significantly in the team to correct previous transfer mistakes and replace the many first-team players allowed to leave Anfield over the summer.
they only spent 20m net on dalglishs reign
boo ! pretty football means nothing . scoring goals is all that matters . im actually pretty bored watching sideways football with no penetration , its not exciting and the reason i dont watch south american soccer .
his transfer dealings have been woeful . all 3 permanent signings are rubbish . allen assaidi and borini are nowhere near liverpool class . im not even mentioning the players he let go
i was one who said give him time , but no longer . he is tactically inept . plays one way ( which doesnt work with the players we have ) never changes it , no plan B
our best chance of success , the league cup -HE messes up with a rubbish team . he slags off his own player in public . he persists with playing gerrard too deep ( wasting one of the best attacking midfield players in the world ) . he persists with playing that short arsed donkey joe allen .
we are 12th , same points as wigan . any moron who thinks this is going in the right direction is delusional .
i know ,i know you are going to com back with excuses ( time / patience / bad luck / referees ) blah blah blah . ive read them all on these pages before
is it you writers job to continually make excuses for this regime ? cause thats all i ever see here . excuses
i dont like to boo any decent hard working man trying his best for liverpool , and i wont – yet . but me and many others on the terraces will start voicing our disapproval in some way , if change is not imminent
rodgers has no track record , he inherited a very good swansea team built by martinez . we need a top manager
BR out FSG out
I’m avoiding the childish puns available to me with your boredom of not seeing penetration…….ahem!
We have disagreed before about the signings and Allen in particular, who I really rate, and the speed in which you dismiss assaidi despite him not as yet featuring much, but as you say, you want a different argument. Well lets put the ball in your court
Rodgers
1. You get your wish, Rodgers goes tomorrow, Who replaces?
2. What happens after 10 games if the same results happen? Replace again?
3. What if that happens again and again?
4. At some point a manager needs time and a squad needs to settle. Tell me why you think Rodgers can’t be this manager..
FSG
1. FSG leave as per your wishes. I presume you want a mansour or a abramovicb?
2. What if the new owners are like H&G?
3. FSG have made errors, that much is obvious, but we are a club now free of debt and in process of becoming self sufficient, after what happened a couple of years ago is this not a good place to be?
a good place to be ? mid table , hungry owners , inexperienced manager . good place to be ? you mad ?
As opposed to have gone bust and plummeted through the league, yes very good! Acceptable for Liverpool football club? Of course not, but how will managerial upheaval and board level upheaval help matters?
I think he is mad , He has forgotten who he supports
Tim, it is supporters like you that we are a club now that accept our status as also rans right from the manager.
Yes we are slightly better off now compared to H&G but as what Beller said mid table with a dufus as manager? Is that all we can expect these days?
Maybe Niall is right, you forgot who you support. We are LFC, lets remember that.
Haha supporters like me?? Didn’t you confess to demanding rafa out and now wanting him back??
No sure where I say I accept where we are now? League position is nowhere near good enough, but what was a realistic spectating this season and why?
yes WE are liverpool , should not setle for mid table , you shouldn’t write these defending them
Read the article Henry, it is not in defence of anyone it raises 2 arguments, 1 of which I happen to agree with. Not one of these arguments says that we should settle for mid-table. Of course we shouldnt. 1 argument slams the table position the other assesses mitigating factors. If you want to question me at least read the piece.
in no way shape or form is our current position acceptable, nobody is suggesting it is, but perhaps some need to step back and look as to why we are where we are beyond the ‘its all Rodgers and FSG’s fault’ Always ask why
Yes Tim, at least i am man enough to admit a mistake. You did not exlicitly said that you accept mid table mediocrity but by accepting clueless owners and manager who directly and indirectly advocates mediocrity, aren’t you also sharing their beliefs?
well said LFCkeano . saved me fingers some work
Get those fingers working….what is your solution bellers?
Rodgers needs more time , and a lot of cash in january … but football is all about results and so far rodgers has failed miserably .
if things have not hugely improved by march , then he must go
March?? Why not now? Can we still stay in the Prem when BR is still in charge by then?
What happens n march if BR replacement has achieved similar?
how could anyone do worse ?
Thats your argument??????
Tim, if we get the right person like Rafa, it would not be any worse that BR. How can we be worse than 12th?
Remember, CFC replaced Scholari with Hiddink in Feb some years ago and their season comes to life. The key word is get the right man.
Oh and by the way, why are you so keen in defending the indefensible? Family friend of the Henry’s and the Rodger’s?
You can not compare our club to Chelsea. Chelsea have a very different operating base and resource. they buy a player for £50m who struggles so spend £100m on players to support him.
Yes Hiddink did well when he came in, but you act as if this is guarenteed. Shearer came in at Newcastle to save them from the drop, did that work? redknapp in his at Southampton? shall i go on? There are no guarentees in football, but it is a safe bet to say that continually changing your team and your manager does not bring success
here we are again tim . liverpool further away from where we should be every time we talk , and you keep defending FSG and for no other reason than blind optimism rodgers as well .
firstly what you said to LFC keano about going bust and plummeting through league , absolute nonsense , ive already explained before how that could never happen to a club our size and stature . what FSG has turned us into is criminal in my mind . only difference between them and H&G is FSG do it behind a smile and wave .
this is actually getting a little tedius , you keep defending them , are you trying to get a job writing for the club or something that you dont want to offend them ? (not joking – serious ) . journalism is about looking at things objectively and seeing things they way they are , not the way you wish them to be .
where were you 2 years ago ? writing here ? were you one of the ones saying hodgson needs time , have patience , everything will be ok ? i bet you were . stability is rubbish , stability keeps you stable not going forward , everton have stability , and FSG are turning us into everton .
anyway … rodgers . i havnt slagged him off , thought he deserved time etc . said he cant be to blame because FSG screwed us . well im changing my mind . reasons >
this season has been over since september but the best chance of winning something was the league cup , rodgers ruined that for us – to me thats unforgivable
i agree with nearly everything LFC keano said . rodgers has done nothing , martinez built swansea , transfer dealings – pathetic . his signings rubbish . tactically stupid ie. when things are not working he sticks with it . the football is boring ( pass pass pass pass pass nothing ) . ferguson ,wenger ,mourinho or any other top manager changes the style of the team depending on opposition – rodgers doesnt . they all have a plan A,B and C – rodgers doesnt .
are all the great managers wrong ? is rodgers better than all who have gone before , managers who have actually won stuff ?
we are getting worse , only a huge investment can breathe life into that mediocre team , and i mean about 100m at least . and we both know our american rulers wont be doing that , dont we ?
pretty football doesnt matter , youth doesnt matter , patience doesnt matter, excuses , refereeing decisions or anything else doesnt matter .
results matter
Absolutely great piece Bob, saves me some work. Like you i am tired of Tim defending the indefensible that is BR and FSG.
To add to what you said, CFC had how many managers in recent years? Did it stop them from winning titles? Roman once famously sacked a World Cup winning coach in mid season when its obvious it wouldnot work out and it saved their season.
First off, I am not defending anyone, this piece if you actually read it presents 2 arguments and my opinion of where I stand. You have a different opinion which is fine but at least support it, follow it through, who replaces BR and FSG, what if they don’t work out?
I can’t believe in all seriousness you have raised Chelsea in this debate. Them and city are complete anomalies due to their vast vast resource. They but a 50m striker who is misfiring, their plan, spend 100m+ on players around him
Tell me Tim, when the fans drove out H&G and RH, did we in all seriousness knows who would step in? We don’t but that is secondary, we know our club have a big problem and we need to get rid of the problem fast. If not it would get worst.
It’s just like someone has cancer, we all know that some treatments like Chemo has side effects and don’t always work but the primary concern is to get rid of the cancer first as thelonger it lingers the worse it could get. That is a guarantee.
FSG and BR is LFC’s cancer at the moment. Get it?
Hmmmmm, I think you are missing my points again Bob. I’m not sure how I have blindly defending them at all. I have openly criticised them for their transfer dealings for example. As for the rest it is merely pointing out facts. They are not like H&G as they haven’t piled debt onto the club – fact. Does this make them infallible? Not at all. As for us going into a ‘Portsmouth’ for all we know FSG were the only bidders, H&G had alienated many buyers and most from the Middle East. So am I thankful FSG got rid of H&G and our debt? Dam right I am, but that is separate to how they run the club, 2 different issues.
As for turning us into Everton, I don’t know the inside out of the clubs accounts, do you? Do you have any reason or proof to doubt that the clubs accounts were in a huge mess and needed sorted? CL wages to bit players for example. United have had more stability than anyone under ferguson, and the success that brought is undeniable. Our greatest period saw stability.
Like LFCKeano I really do question why you write everything off after 10 games but we won’t see eye to eye on this so instead of back and forth answers the questions I posed to LFCKeano, what would you do? What if you sack Rodgers and your replace,ent has a similar record? Sack them? Take a look at QPR, the amount of many spent, the turnover of players and managers, what does that do to a club?
At some point a club has to decide on a manager and show patience and faith and allow to build. Do you really think performances on the pitch were as bad ad hodgson? We are poor finishing away from a much higher position. Perfect example is Sunday, following our equaliser there were 4 clear chances to score again which went taken.
Am I happy with our league position? Not at all. Do I think FSG are perfect? No. Do I think Rodgers is the messiah? No but he is not a very naughty boy either. Today as things stand is not good enough for Liverpool football club but a sensible head and realism is needed.
My over riding question to you is, if we install the policy of 10-15 games for a player/ manager before we write-off/sack how will is bring success?
totally agree bob+chan 100% well said
how can you totally agree with Chan? he stated himself he wanted Rafa out but now wants him back! how long would Rafa get before Chan would want him out again? fickle
Tim, before you accused me of being fickle, please check you facts. Rafa is the only manager i want to come back. I am not clamouring for KD for example. It’s simply based on the Rafa’s track record as manager of LFC and in La Liga.
Tell me what is BR’s track record? This is a man that had achieved nothing as manager and his greatest ability is to inherit teams/players that others had built before him. Those younsters that BR is forced to use, he inherited it from Rafa.
Devaluing my arguements by accusing me of being fickle, is that all you are capable of Tim?
If you want stability, Rafa is our best bet due to his recent track record (unlike KD’s whose achiement of any note is more than 10 years ago) and his inside out knowledge of our club
I accused you of being fickle Chan because of your own words! You yourself said you wanted Rafa to be sacked and are now calling for him to come back! How long would you give him this time before calling for his head again? That is pretty much the definition of fickle
Our best bet at stability is to have owners with a long term plan and a manager they trust and invest in. If this were Rafa I would be over the moon. It isnt, they have chosen Rodgers and believe in his vision. It is a long term plan yet you have judged after 15 games. Do you really think rafa if brought in tomorrow would guarentee success overnight? really? How long did it take for him to sort out Houllier’s mess and really challenge domestically?
Nonsense article to be honest .Are you seriously asking how is he doing ? Are you blind ? Look at the table we are 13th Rodgers is not up to it and should go . Any top club would have sacked him long ago .
I am asking for opinion and yours I take it is booo! So the next question…..what would you do about it?
how can anyone defend BRs record . awful . the worst liverpool side since 1966 .
Bigger picture Ken. Question for you though, you have control of the club, what do you do?
get rid of FSG and rodgers obviously
for you maybe! next stage:
1. replace with who?
2. what if we find ourselves in a similar position in 6 months?
dont know what is going on tim , every time i write a reply iof any length , it wont print it
top clubs need top managers to manage top players . top managers change a bad situation with a sub or a tactical move, its called tactical know how . rodgers doesn’t change . so many times under rafa we were out played, but we still managed to sneak a win, especially in europe . rodgers doesn’t know how to win games
as for who ? rafa, hiddink ,klopp . i haven’t really thought about it . a new man would improve things immediately to an extent, but for a bright future we need FSG removed . i i will be bringing it up at next supporters meeting and i would encourage all real fans to do the same .
all good managers I wont disagree with you there, and a short term impact can be a positive one. But the big question here Bob, is what if say Klopp, doesnt have the desired league impact after 10 games? bin him off too?
all well and good wanting rid of FSG, but finding new owners is not easy and the likes of the Abromovichs and Mansours people crave is a rarity no?
i really dont understand your blind faith in rodgers . he has done nothing to deserve it . a top manager will have proven he knows how to bring success ( and won things )and could be afforded more time – because we trust him .
if we hired ian atkins ( back to back promotions , young , positive , pretty football ) or paul lambert ( back to back promotions , young , great 1st season in PL! , more exp than rodgers ) , or even a league 2 manager . would you follow them ? ask for them to be given time ?
I dont have blind faith in him at all Bob, and think wires are crossed here. I refuse to judge him so quickly especially with the mitigating factors that have occurred during his reign to date. Ultimately you are right and he will be judged by results, but not after 10.
My personal impression of him is that I have been impressed with how he has conducted himself, I think he has begun to install a decent brand of football, but this will take time to gel as it would with any manager. Every manager has their own philosophies which take time to install, its very rare this is done with the click of a finger and successful ones build on what is already good. What I would say is that we have been a decent finish away from a much better league position, and for example Shelvey not taking his chances on sunday is not Rodgers fault. If anyone is to blame it is FSG for the debacle end to the transfer window.
So to repeat, I do not have blind faith but I think a manager needs a decent crack of the whip when installed.
Tim, the so called decent brand of football is to pass sideways for half an hour with not much of a clue what to do next in the final 3rd.
His philosophy? What is that Tim? BR inherited everything from his predecessors, from his former Swansea team and playing style right to the LFC’s current batch of younsters.
The point is we do not have to wait 10 games to judge a poser. We can see it almost right from the start. BR does not have any record to speak off.
i hope your not in business tim , your attitude of ‘ its not working but lets give it more time ‘ is ridiculous , nonsensical . we are 12th , dont you understand what this regime is doing to us ?
you didnt answer my hodgson question tim . honestly please
football is a unique beast so can not be compared in that respect to business. constant chopping and changing in football terms is very rarely a good idea.
You need to seperate regime into Rodgers and FSG. For Rodgers, do you actually think as a club we are a million miles away? He has operated a paper thin squad and not obtained the results our play at times deserved. We have paid heavy prices for individual errors and poor finishing rather than an abhorrant style. which brings me nicely to Hodgson…
I didnt want him as manager as I never, unlike some on this very thread, wanted him sacked. Especially with Dalglish declaring his interest in the role it should never have been handed the role. When he was in it he needed to be backed or sacked, he certainly wasnt backed and found himself with new bosses who didnt want him and he had to go.
As for FSG, I can understand your beef and I have my own reservations about them. I think January is a huge month for them. They havebrought in Rodgers with a long term plan, they let him down badly in the summer and need to put their money where there mouth is. I suggest we need 2 strikers (1 at the very least established preferably both) as well as further squad beefing. Deadwood needs to be set free but only after we have brought players in. I would also start looking at the future in terms of GK.
FSG will probably spend 20-30 in january on some 6- 12 m players . good players not top ones . its a drop in the ocean , its not enough , we both know they are in it for the money . they are just wasting our time
a new goalkeeper ? thats strange . goalkeepers dont reach their best til their mid 30s . reina will get better and better . we will however need one because reina will want to play for a team capable of winning things . he like suarez wont stay for many more years
Problem we have Bob is that because of the last few years we are not in a position to attract the truly world class if we end up in competition with those that can offer CL. Should we get someone in, like Suarez it is easier to retain as they can see what kind of a club and fanbase we are.
The problem is our squad needs numbers as well as superstars and FSG are not Abramovich or a Mansour and I would rather they didnt plunge us into debt. Only the super rich are not in it for the money to be fair. But Jan is their time to show us they mean business. Come Feb 1st we will truly know.
When I talk about a keeper, I refer specifically to Butland. i think it is important to bring in a top young keeper even if it is to do what chelsea are doing with Courtois and City did with Hart. Love Reina to bits but he is getting older, we dont want to be left in a situation where we are desperate for a keeper.
why do you care if we get in debt ? hell , lets spend 300m and owe the banks . its not hurting utd and at least we will have a proper team again .
reina is 29 , erm thats young for a keeper . hart is a rare exception because young goalkeepers make too many mistakes and are a waste of money . we did it with james , carson + kirkland . better off buying a top keeper in his early 30s
because i dont want the club to end up like we did in the Crown Court. United have been lucky they have been successful, personally i want my club run properly and reesponibly.
my point is, bring in Butland say and loan him for a few years to build experience. Carson and Kirkland were thrown in the deep end too quickly. Hart got experience at Birmingham on loand and prior to City at Shrewsbury.
the long replies not posting has happened to me before! but it allows me to answer your points bit by bit.
I think your criticism of Rodgers there is harsh after 15 games in all is it? maybe a couple more. It is such a short amount of time how can anybody be sure, lets not forget Rafa had a rocky first season domestically. Also interesting to note on his anniversary, Fergusons first season, 1 win in his first 6, ended 12th, good job they showed patience
ferguson took over a team 19th . it is obvious to anyone that teams need a plan B or C and rodgers wont / cant change a game . we must not let him buy more inferior players in january . his misuse of gerrard is criminal too .
ive already explained before that there are many rich tycoons wanting a club like liverpool . you said before how FSG ‘saved’ us from administration . i would welcome administration rather than FSG . in administration it would give the many hopeful investors a chance to buy liverpool at a knock down price . so what we lose 10 points – like its going to make a difference
i hope there are not too many fans like you out there . you would have us waste precious years ,while the top clubs amble further ahead
you still haven’t answerred my hodgson question
so what if we end up in court , so what if we end up in administration . its better than 6 or 7 years mid table mediocrity with FSG ,and by the time they realise you cant get success without lots of money , and decide to sell – liverpool wont even be considered a big club anymore
thats where we differ Bob, I think the club should be run properly. I dont want the club run like United or even for that matter City or Chelsea.
As you have said before Liverpool is a great club and always will be because of not only what it has achieved but the fans, the atmosphere and the character. I want players to come to liverpool because its liverpool not because its Oily Richmans dollar bill enticing.
well im sorry , but thats just plain stupid ! unbelievably stupid ! you accept second best for your club , because you dont want us to buy the best .
you dont want some rich billionaire to make us great , but you dont mind owners who dont care for your club , taking our money .
ive never heard anything as silly as that !
Where did I say I wanted second best?? Of course I want the best players of course, no doubt but I want the club to retain its soul, what makes it special, what is wrong with that?
In an ideal world I would want the club run by fans for fans, I would want the team filled with star players the club has developed but that won’t happen. Instead I want the club run properly by people who won’t risk the future of the club and invest appropriately! Is that FSG? Jury is out, big month coming up for them
i had thought you were a bit misguided or too trusting tim . i accused you of being apathetic before , i see by your last 2 comments i was right . you lack passion for our club , being happy with a well run club , rather than a rich competitive club .
unfortunately your attitude is common to many of the casual day trippers to anfield . you re wrong to settle for 2nd best . thats not what sport is about . our club really doesnt need fans like you .
i will continue to respond to your predictable articles , not for you but for the other readers , but i wont enter into debate with you again , i really dont see the point . i am genuinely sorry to have wasted so much of my time arguing with you
Bob, you really hit it on the nail with the last one. Passion is the key word. For our great club, good is not enough, we want great, we never settle for 2nd best. Now we are not even 4th or 10th best.
The point is FSG wiping out the debt is a good start but is that the end? They are supposed to do that and be competitive at the same time. That is why we got rid of H&G. As for their apointment BR, well we all know what this poser is all about, don’t we?
well said both you chan and bob . ive read all and agreed fully with all your comments
we got rid of H&G Chan because they loaded the club with high interest debt that was crippling us. Interest only repayments upwards of £60m was what ultimately led to rafa leaving and the likes of alonso, torres and mascherano being sold. Hicks in particular had a notorious history for buying companies using monies secured against the company before selling for a profit. That is what he was doing with our club.
So far FSG are nothing like them. Are they perfect? no Can they improve? yes, are there big questions that need asking of them? of course
hahaha you have made me chuckle Bob you really have. So because I dont want to plunge our club into debt it makes me a ‘casual day tripper’ with no passion. How does plunging the club in debt make us rich? Leeds plunged themselevs into debt and looked what happened to them. portsmouth the same. you can not take United as an example as their marketing machine is vastly superior to any other club, they have been doing it longer and better than anyone.
Would I be happy if Oily richman bought us and invested billions and bought the best of the best? of course I would. Do I want FSG or any other potential owner to borrow money against the club to spend? no, I dont want my club put at risk again. I would happily support Liverpool football club at any level they play out. i want a club that is run well and effectively, whicch means responsibility at board level, maximising all revenue sources and reinvesting back into the team.
Real Madrid spent millions early 2000 assembling the galacticos yet in Beckhams time he won a league? They have again spent millions and are seeing more success now. What if the club plunges itself into debt to buy players, and those players dont work out? a massive risk that could irreparably damage the club, is that something you want Bob? or do you not foresee any problems?
hmmmm there I times I dont think you really read before responding and to make a statement such as ‘our club doesnt need fans like me’, wow! just wow! Poor statement and poor accusation there, we have differing opinions about what the future for the club and although I have numerous ways of responding I wouldnt sink to that level. Liverpool Football Club is a wonderful institution with a vast, varied and passionate support and in my mind all welcoming as long as you are not bringing the club into disrepute with racism, homophobia and so on. Im a positive person with a positive outlook that I put across to challenge the negativity out there. The yin to your yang
wow , you could argue about the colour of s ***e tim . you are senseless and all u do is make excuses
ive already given my opinion , was going to add to it but i think its already been covered by everyone else
BR out FSG out
well s***e can be many different colours! an old house mate reliably informed me of what happened when he drank a lot of blue wkd when bored! try it. also, would it not be boring if everyone agreed with you?
I still want your opinion, you make it clear that BR and FSG should be out. fine. I reiterate my questions to you:
1. Who replaces them?
2. How long do you give them to match your expectations?
3. What if they dont?