AS the topsy-turvy season we are currently enduring continues to both delight and frustrate in equal measures, the on-pitch setbacks should not completely distract attention away from potentially a huge announcement made this month.
A news update from the BBC (other news vending organisations are available) in which we were informed of an agreement, in principle, within the Premier League for a financial fair play system.
Despite not being a unanimous decision, it seemingly appears that there are enough votes in place to make this happen.
Now the rules set to come in are to govern the wage expenditure as well as club losses, with potential punishments including point deductions. The levels quoted are that over a 3 season period, no club can report a loss of over £105 million, and guess what? Along with Manchester City and Chelsea, we are the only club over the last 3 years to have reported such a loss, and unlike the teams in blue, have only a meagre League Cup to show for this.
As we are reminded regularly, the net transfer spend under FSG does not amount to a great deal, so we certainly haven’t been splashing the cash on the Toure’s, Aguero’s and Dzeko’s of this world; instead we have had a juggernaut, slowly sinking under the weight of toxic debts and unmanageable financial plans installed by our wonderful (sarcasm) previous owners.
So the question is this, are there some sections that owe FSG an apology?
The decision announced earlier this month will certainly not have been a snap one, and much more likely has been discussed for a number of years. With this in mind FSG have had to undertake a project from the day they bought Liverpool, to nurse her back to financial health.
The biggest surgery we have seen came in the summer when we waved goodbye to Kuyt, Maxi, Adam, Bellamy, Aquilani and to some extent, Carroll, and then again in January as Cole bid farewell. I shudder to think what the combined weekly wage was of these players but it is safe to say that without Champions League money at the very least, it was unsustainable, particularly given the level of contribution of some.
Let me be controversial for a second and throw something out there…perhaps the sudden announcement made by Carragher this week is linked. Why do I say this?
Carragher has undoubtedly earned every penny of his contract and more but in the new financial environment we find ourselves in, can any club afford to pay a 35 year old such high wages (Lampard at Chelsea)?
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Sentiment over business is a tough decision I’m glad I don’t have to make. With the announcement I hope to ‘Fowler’ that Jamie is retained in a coaching capacity. His knowledge and influence is a big enough loss without watching him ‘do a Neville’.
As well as the points made about wages, we have seen a much stricter transfer policy and the club is not being burned as it was under Comolli’s guidance.
This has hurt us this season undoubtedly; had Sturridge been signed in August we would be in a very different position. The defeat to West Brom on Monday highlighted how we cry out for somebody operating in the positions that Sturridge does.
FSG have undoubtedly reduced the wage bill at the club, something that walks hand in hand with a drive towards a younger squad as well as compiling a squad in a much financially sound manner. Combine this with work off the pitch in terms of partners, sponsors and so on (if you believe rumours, the next shirt sponsorship deal will be impressive) and the argument can certainly be made that the club is making solid foundations to build on if everyone involved is strong enough to tough it out through these frustrating times.
What’s my view I hear no-one ask? I’m sure I will be accused of being a FSG sycophant, a Rodgers lover and probably bizarrely enough, defending Allen in this piece, but I can see the merits of what is being done.
Unfortunately the club was on its knees after H&G and tough times were inevitable to sort their mess. I didn’t want Rafa or Kenny sacked and likewise I don’t want Rodgers sacked – I believe the club now demands stability. I can see the Rodgers style coming together and it will take time.
Likewise, it took Rafa time (Kenny needed more time). Chopping and changing managers every 5 seconds is very Chelsea, and do we want to go there?
Whereas I can see what I think is the bigger picture and I truly believe there has to be more flexibility. The errors made in August are unforgiveable and we were very lucky to have a certain Uruguayan. As is the way in football if you identify the right player why quibble over loose change? I won’t apologise for the criticism I have given in relation to the striker debacle.
So before the pelters begin, answer this: Do you owe FSG an apology? If not, why?
Come find me on twitter @timdibs
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The readers of this site deserve an apology from you , for inflicting yet more drivel and nonsense on us .
Really , Where do you get off writing such total foolishness ? You are living in a world of your own . Idiot !
Apologise for what exactly Tony? Daring to offer up an alternative opinion? Not going along with the knee jerk ‘BR out’ ‘FSG out’ after every disappointing result.
Did you read the article or just the title? A question was asked looking at the long term future of the club, nice to see that you have answered it in your reply…oh wait. I offered my opinion at the end, but you probably didnt read that
I read it . its not an alternative opinion , its a insane stupidly immature opinion . And frankly , nobody cares about your opinion , it is always idiotic
very droll this Tony, why dont you proffer your opinion instead of seeking ways to put me down, or should we all just agree with you? would that make you happier?
Dont bother Tony . Most regular readers realise that conversing with Tim is a complete waste of time , and most ignore him
Tim just likes spouting his stupid opinions onto everyone else . Be thankful its only stupid internet articles , its the people who have to deal with him in person are the ones i feel really sorry for
Well said Tony.
Rodgers, Pascoe, Marsh OUT!
FSG OUT!!
difficult as it is to imagine – you have surpassed your own usual levels of stupidity this time Tim . Lol
I have to admit i dont usually bother reading your rubbish Tim , but the headline got my interest .
The question is , do you actually believe the bile that you trot out ? Either you dont believe it and you like the notoriety of being this sites biggest clown … or you DO believe it and then i think you need psychiatric help
Your opinions are soooooo insane and stupid , they should NOT be considered or discussed , but should be just dismissed as the ramblings of a fool instead
One thing IS for sure , You have no intelligence or understanding when it comes to football .
please consider the psychiatric help , i was not joking
here is a novel idea redrum, why dont you actually engage in discussion about the subject matter instead of attempting to make cheap pot shots.
Do I believe my opinion? Yes, yes I do. Do we owe an apology to FSG over the summer Transfer window? no, not at all, they messed it up and cost us badly which would have been worse if not for Suarez….this sounds familiar, like I have already written it….oh wait I did, did you miss that bit?
The question is the approach that FSG have taken in slashing the wage bill and age of the squad has taken its toll undoubtedly and our results have suffered, but has this been done in mind to the long term, particularly with this new PL FFP.
Do you think this approach will benefit the club long term? Personally in isolation I dont think so
He said why he wouldn’t engage with you , or can you not read ? He said your opinions are to be dismissed NOT discussed ,and i wholeheartedly agree
well you have really proven your point there Tony and showed me the error of my ways with your precise and detailed critique
Yes . Every single word is bull
Well…….if you can’t trust Americans bankers…who can you trust?
“this season continues to delight and frustrate ” ???? Where is the delight in seeing Pool have their worst season in 60 years ? What moron wrote this ?
And any gullible twit that thinks the fair play thing wont be abused by the rich clubs is living in fairy land . An utter rubbish article
Wake up man
shhhhhheeeeeesh why does everything have to be simplified. ‘the season continues to delight and disappoint’ – take the Man City game, I took delight in the performance and disappointment in the result. I took delight in the run in which we steamrolled QPR,Fulham, Norwich and Sunderland and extreme disappointment in the performances against Oldham and WBA.
Football is one large grey area, there is no black and white. If you are one thing it doesnt automatically make you against the other.
Your second point is much more sensible, ignoring the abuse. The next stage of FFP is the enforcement. Like you I have my doubts, certainly of the European modeal, but does this PL addition change things? if you want to have a normal discussion surrounding this, I would love to have one
@Tim: Just because of you spamming everyone comments, now we have to deal with antispam challenge. When will you apologize to all of us ???
tell me what I should apologise for, Im sure there are many things…
yes , you should be apologising to us for inflicting your insane idiotic opinions on other people . This is one of the bad sides of the internet – delusional people being able to aire their views
inflicting my opinions? I have inflicted my opinions on anyone, not you nor the 85 Harrys before you, you choose to read…well I think you did at least read the title hence your reply.
You are right though the internet is full of delusional people. I fully admit being one as I continue to believe I may actually get some normal civilised conversation. Perhaps Harry87 will provide
This should be titled – ‘Delusions of a madman ,part34 ‘by Tim Williams
embarrassing Tim .
excellent response to the question posed there Fotheringham, I expected better from you…..
Tim, firstly, I agree that Rafa and Kenny probably should’ve been given another season based upon what they had achieved previously. Not just the previous few years at Liverpool but their careers. Rafa won 2 La Liga’s against the behemoths of Madrid & Barca, a promotion campaign with another club and a Uefa cup. Kenny, well we all know what he’s done for us. However both had poor final seasons and suffered for their mistakes. Rafa with Alonso and missing Champs League qualification. Kenny for expensive signings who didn’t perform, our worst league season in 50 years (in 1994 we also finished 8th but had 60 points, 8 point more than last season) and consistent difficult dealing with the ubiquitous media.
I’ve said before that I think Rodgers should be assessed at the end of the season and then judgement handed out. However it isn’t looking good. If things progress as they are, we will end the season having been knocked out of Carling Cup (as holders) to a small club, knocked out of FA Cup to a club fighting relegation 2 divisions below us, knocked out of Europa League at first knock-out stage and in a lower position than last season. Rafa, Kenny and indeed Hodgson were sacked for far less and Rodgers doesn’t have a history of success (just 1 promotion and 1 season finishing 11th in Prem).
I don’t think Rodgers should be sacked right now though as no one could take over. We couldn’t bring anyone in for 12 games. I believe the league position will decide Rodgers future. 5th is beyond us in my view. But if Rodgers is able to secure European qualification from league position (barring a miracle against Zenit, and the implausibility of winning that competition without Sturridge & Coutinho and given our results this season against decent teams) I think FSG will stick with Rodgers. If we don’t achieve European qualification I’m sure Rodger’s will go, and I think he cannot have too many complaints, he wasted his first £30m and has made incalculable selection and tactical mistakes.
Rodgers is a nice guy. I wanted it to work and have repeatedly given him the benefit of the doubt, but he’s often disappointed. Results are what matter and if he doesn’t secure European qualification with our squad having spent £50m it would be very surprising if he stayed.
Also, on Financial Fair Play (FFP) there was a good programme on Sky’s Footballers Footballer Show (which can be variable in quality) which had David Dein (long time Arsenal Vice-Chairman), David Gold (Hammers owner) & Chritian Purslow (former LFC MD). They discussed the Premier Leagues new rules, UEFA’s FFP and there was a good discussion with Purslow on Liverpol. Purslow was asked his view on FSG and he diplomatically refused to say they were a success, but made it clear he was disappointed with them so far, particularly because he felt they had dithered and lacked courage (his word) in going for a new stadium. He also said that they had miscalculated the timing and effect of Uefa’s FFP, and there were still large concerns on the effectiveness of it’s implementation. While UEFAs FFP is actually stricter than the Premier League’s, the latter is much more likely to be enforced (not least due to governmental pressure). It was also mentioned that Arsenal, ManU, Liverpool & Tottenham (the supposed “Gang of 4” who would benefit most from the regulations), had wanted to go much further, but this was not agreed by the majority of clubs due to the locking-in effect on the prevailing elite.
Did anyone else see this programme? If not I’d suggest searching for it on your Sky+ (if you have it) as it’s interesting due to it’s Liverpool content.
Sorry for long post.
Gabriel please dont apologise for posting a reply, certainly not one where you are engaging on the subject matter and presenting your own opinion rather than the generic bile that seems to occur quite often. Thank you for taking your time to read and reply.
But do you think sacking at the end of the season is the right idea? How can 1 season be enough time for anybody to imprint an entirely new style and ideology on a side? If Rodgers were to be sacked then are we not back at square 1 again? Starting over with a new manager and new ideas and having to overhaul the squad yet again. There is no magic button, great sides need time, managers need time, moreso when taking over a club on a low ebb. Shanks took time, as did Fergie, now whilst not comparing BR to either, the jury in my mind is still on the fence, how can he be judged on 1 season? Lets not forget the players we lost. Lets not forget the transfer policy of the owners, which in effect makes progress hamstrung. What exactly did people expect at the start of the season?
Hence the whole point of the argument, FSG have done some very positive things for the club (administration, sorting out the financial mess, off field sponsorship, investment in youth) as well as some very negative things (summer transfer window, restrictive transfer policy, failure to install ‘footballing’ people in the club etc), hence my question. Do they deserve an apology over transfer dealings? no, not at all. They saved money on the transfer fee of Sturridge but had they bought him in the summer it is safe to say from intial viewings that we would be doing slightly better. As for the longer term aspects who can say yet? we needed money spent in Jan, they did, we need money spent in the summer and on experience, not anymore youth, come september they may just be owed an apology.
Tim, Football is a results business. Results are always what matter. Results are historic – you look at them after they’ve happened. They are always the best judge. After results we look at performances and whether there is an upward trajectory that ‘could’ lead to better results in the future. The latter two are subjective while results are objective, and that’s a key reason why results are the best gauge.
For me, whether Rodgers should keep his job is based primarily on results. A season is not a short-term reaction, it’s a long term assessment. When assessing what are ‘expectations’ you have to look at where you have been in recent seasons. It can take time to improve, I agree, but if you don’t have the right man in charge you never will improve, however long you give them.
Attaining a certain level of results, and performances, is the acid test on whether the manager has the ability to take the club further. Would you keep Rodgers if we finished 10th?, 12th? 16th? Would he deserve another season then? There’s always a cut-off Tim. We all have a level which below we won’t accept, can’t accept, the existing manager. I’ve no doubt (absolutely none) that if say a Mourinho was in charge with exactly the same squad (including Allen, Assaidi & co.) we’d be far higher in the league. I can’t prove it, but I do believe it. Would you disagree? If that’s the case, then clearly there are better managers. For me Rafa often got the best out of average players/teams. I’ve lost count of the tactical battles he won against superior teams in big-games like Champs League quarters and semis. The better managers get more out of what they have.
All true Gabriel . My cut off point was long ago . The 30m wasted in the summer was enough to convince me that we have a buffoon in charge
As someone already pointed out , its our worst season in 60 years … 60 years !!!! . Why are these fools defending Rodgers ? when a better ,more experienced and knowledgeable manager in Hodgson was lambasted
I agree , i think FSG will give him another season if we qualify for europe .. so for the future of our club , i hope we dont
You hope the cub doesnt succeed? really?? The owners have show that European qualification and trophy success is irrelevant in whether to keep a manager, but hey you carry on wanting the club to lose.
Rather than the simplistic view that people are defending Rodgers, perhaps attempt to see the bigger picture. The clubs craves stability. You sack Rodgers is on thing, but doesnt solve the problem, it worsens the situation for me. It means the club is starting again. How long do you give the next manager? or will you be on his back after the first defeat?
You are quite right Gabriel, football is a results business, but success walks hand in hand with stability. The problem basing everything on results is that it is so restrictive. Take the last 2 games, both games we could quite easily have won had relatively simple chances been taken. We are talking fine margins but winning and defeat. The WBA game we didnt play to the levels we showed against City but we were still a lot better than our opposition who sucker punched us. Whilst not seeking excuses for BR, for the vast majority of the season he has been left with 1 striker. Before any decision is made on BR I just hope a big picture is used.
Despite what some here may think I am not blindly sticking by Rodgers, far from it, I remain on the fence. It is interesting that you raise Mourinho as there, in what I have seen, is certainly a mix in opinion on wanting him here and that is down to personality rather than undoubted talent. The probem that you have with any manager coming in is that in the modern world he is only as good as his last result in the eyes of some. I am sure those that demand the return of Rafa and/or Kenny were screaming for their heads at the end of their reign. The same that lambast Lucas and Henderson only for a season later to slam the manager for dropping them. What the club needs is a long term plan, whether that includes BR or not is irrelevant. we are building a squad at the moment and have some terrific young players ( i really rate allen) but the next step has to be, must be, experience. We need voices, we need influence and we need solidity. We have been very fortunate both stevie and Aggers bodies have ben intact this season, we need option in the liklihood they dont. Do you think it is possible to overhaul a squad (something which had to be done) in 2 transfer windows??
The problem you have is if BR goes but we will be hiring again, the new man will want his own team around him and own players which normally takes time to settle but then has to deal with the pressure of dealing immediately. At what point is time provided? Do people who want him out demand a bigger name? does that buy time?
Serious question now, after the disappointing end to last season coupled with the players we lost in the summer, what were realistic expectations this season? Using my head the Manchester clubs and Chelsea would be top 3, Spurs and Arsenal would then fight it out for 4 and 5 as they are better placed in terms of form and squad than we were. So 6th? Lets not forget that we have had a very young and inexperienced squad this season. A squad lacking leaders as well as additional strikers for the most part. You could make the argument that Everton had more depth than us. Out of the cups? very very disappointing, but lets not pretend that we won 1 each year or came close to winning one, 6 years between 2006 and 2012, and BR certainly not the first manager at any club to get shocked away at a lower level side.
Tim, I’ve tried to reply multiple times to you but for some reason this ‘Human verification’ won’t allow me to write anything more than a few paragraphs and keeps ‘deleting’ my replies. So a shortish one (hope this gets through).
I take your points, I just believe that a season is the right ammount of time to judge how Brendan has done. I’m not one for getting carrying away with one good result or one bad. I agree it takes more than a season to build a squad or for young players to show their worth, but I believe with our present squad (as it is) we are significantly better than Swansea and West Brom (who are both above us).
I believe the minimum requirement with our squad is to get Europa league qualification. We are easily good enough to do this. If Brendan doesn’t achieve this he can have no complaints if he goes.
However I’ll make my assessment on Rodgers at the end of the season. I think FSG will do the same.
1st BR out
2nd Get the greedy stinking yanks out