One reality – conflicting agendas: Rodgers v FSG v Ayre
WHAT we say and what we do in life can often be two very different things. The best laid plans and intentions can sometimes have a way of undoing themselves, not least when there are certain conflicts of interest we didn’t even know existed.
Sometimes, when hearing and reading various statements about our transfer policy and potential transfer targets from different members of the Anfield hierarchy, it sounds like there is a bit of disturbance on the lines of communication between owners and manager; you get the feeling they want to be on the same page but have different definitions about what should constitute LFC’s transfer policy.
Some quotes from Tom Werner about the club’s spending power and intentions in the market:
“I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football” (April 2012)
“Our intention is to strengthen [in the January window] but actions will speak louder than words.” (November 2012)
Then we have the more recent remarks from Ian Ayre about the Dempsey deal and the effect it would have had on the Reds’ ability to sign Daniel Sturridge:
“If we had spent that money in the summer then we wouldn’t have done that trade recently. It may have left us short, but the pieces just did not come together. We’ve come through that period now. I still feel it was the right decision.”
Is there something in these quotes that should worry us, or is this just me over-thinking things, looking for problems that don’t exist?
Take the second Werner quote: if Rodgers indeed wanted to sign Wesley Sneijder in January, what does this say about the understanding between owners and manager? Was it a coincidence that both Gerrard and Rodgers publicly talked about the need for more experience in the squad, while Ian Ayre praised our age balance as the best in the league; or was this a public power struggle between FSG and our manager – a struggle that stopped Brendan Rodgers from signing a player he wanted?
I don’t doubt FSG’s overall intentions, nor do I doubt Ian Ayre’s sincerity and effort when it comes to wanting to be the bridge between owners and manger. I believe they are all more or less singing from the same hymn sheet – at least in theory. There is one major detail that bothers me though: Brendan Rodgers is the only one in the structure who is a proper football man, and I feel this is partially where the potential conflict lies.
There has been a lot of talk about FSG and their strategy: buy young, build for the future, value for money. In theory it makes perfectly good sense in my head; after all, this is more or less what Alex Ferguson has done over the years as well. The Berbatov’s and the Van Persie’s have been the exceptions, not the rule.
But I also think there must be a degree of pragmatism. Within any strategy there must be flexibility, and I’m not fully convinced FSG are willing to bend their principles sufficiently, hence the contradictive statements – with Ian Ayre doing his finest fire extinguisher impersonation.
I do believe FSG are willing to go all in regarding transfer fees – as seen in the January window two years ago and the summer window 2011 – but only when they are convinced a transfer is good for the club in the long run; only when they see it as a sound investment. They seem to operate in a rational way, without fully grasping the fact that the transfer market in football is fundamentally irrational – hence the failure on deadline day last August.
Going back to the issues with transfer policy:
Paying £25m or so for Robin van Persie, or giving Wesley Sneijder £150k p/w; none of it makes much sense from a pure financial point of view when you are trying to make the club self-sustainable, but these are the cases where principles and rationale go out the window – and if you don’t have the madness of it assimilated into your system you probably need heavy persuading.
I think these contradictions we see have to do with FSG not fully appreciating and accepting how the market works yet, and a certain stubbornness to do things the way they had planned when purchasing the club.
If that is the case, do we have the right MD in place to help Rodgers reason with them when financial principles no longer can be used as an argument?
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February 24th, 2013
Rodgers was brought in because FSG wanted a yes man to shut up and do what he was told . Rodgers said he wanted experienced players but he didn’t get them . Ayre is another yes man and needs replacing too. Liverpool is being run by people like Werner who don’t understand football
February 24th, 2013
Do we want LFC to become another Rangers which is what would have happened had not Hicks & Gillett been ousted by John Henry and his partners.
We have to live within our means which now we are out of Europe and not likely to be back for some time. Therefore our youth policy has to be in the forefront of our future.
We may no longer be able to bring in big names with their high wage demands but we can still attract young players with potential and decent older players nearing the end of their careers provided they don’t want the same pay they received when at their peak David Moyes has done a great job by doing this but has had to sell his better players to keep a bankrupt club going.
FSG have a very stringy tightrope to walk, in pleasing the fans, their shareholders and the manager who just wants to succeed without the finances of a Man City or Chelsea, I didn’t include Manure because as we all know they have owners who have their own house of cards situation on the same lines as Hicks and Gillett.
February 24th, 2013
You dont doubt FSGs overall intentions ??? Are you serious ?
Do you think they are here for the glory of LFC ? – NO . they are ruthless efficient american businessmen , with no love for our club or city . They are here to make money , simple as .
Surely there are not people out there naive enough to think they are here to make some english football club the best in their country .
There is little or no difference between H&G and FSG . FSG may be smarter and less willing to take risks like H&G . But we are still being run by yanks out for themselves
February 24th, 2013
i agree with you, but dont you think getting young and inexperienced players will help us in the long run?…………Liverpool 4life.
February 24th, 2013
The reason Ayer is saying things like he has been is top make other clubs think we’re skint to prevent them diggin there heels in during negotions, also Werner spent 35 mil on carol and got their hands badly burned by so called experts daglish and commoli as for Rodgers what a young manager we have hope he doesn’t leave because of all the glory hunting negative muppets that now call themselves Liverpool fans their the main problem sh*t fans we have so much positives took look at and anybody who is up to date with football and our aims and goals knows it takes time chopping and changing gets ye nowhere think we’re we will be in a few yr some if the football we play is unreal we just imagine if we stick with that for the next fee years we be top force again with all the glory hunters living Rodgers plastic fans * off …. Ynwa
February 24th, 2013
The problem i have with the club is that they treat the fans like idiots . Just like politicians they lie and ignore certain facts if its doesnt agree with their propaganda . This season has been the worst in decades but they try and put a spin on it to make it sound successful .
It will be a great day for LFC , the day FSG are gone from our club
February 24th, 2013
Rodgers must be top 5 minimum next season. I hope he succeeds but he had to learn first and if he hasnt by now he must go, he came and spent money reinforcing our stong points and weakened our already weak points now these are facts any LFC fan could and would have told him at the start, had he spent the same money the other way around a top striker and another loan striker as back up we would be top 4 now.
February 24th, 2013
You say a major problem is that Rodgers is the only ‘football’ man at the club. Well that’s because of Rodgers. He refused to work with a technical or football director (when he is clearly lacking in experience and would benefit from one). You can’t blame FSG for being circumspect regarding some of Rodgers’ wants. He’s proved to be very fallible regarding signings and football decisions, and FSG were burnt badly by trusting ‘football’ men like Commolli and the great Kenny.
February 24th, 2013
FSG could should spend some of our money , where it really would make a difference – on a top top manager , instead of a cheap championship manager
February 24th, 2013
Earlier this season BR was playing Downing at left-back and Enrique on the left-wing, the man is just incompetent and has zero common sense, can the BR apologists explain those decisions? There is not a single person i i know who thinks Downing is a left-back. BR cannot be trusted to spend another penny, his judgement in all things is poor to say the least. I think he’s a glorified ‘number 2′ or 1st team coach, definitely not an out and out manager.
February 24th, 2013
Out of the frying pan , and into the fire .
H+G – FSG
there is no difference except in strategy . End result is – they want our money
February 24th, 2013
Yes,
The word is rebuilding or transition if you prefer. Downing at LB, etc is just reality when you can’t win today, you play with what you have while you acquire/grow what you need.
February 24th, 2013
Cant wait for the day when Anfield is a yank-free zone . Liverpool will be better off on that day
February 24th, 2013
Thus speak the PlayStation generation…sigh.
February 25th, 2013
FSG got burn’t by Comolli in 2011, so they halted big spending. What were they supposed to do?, waste even more money???. They have committed £150m to expand Anfield and installed an 18 member fans committee, paid the clubs debts off etc……………….what is not to like???.
February 25th, 2013
Liverpool are 4th in the PL scoring charts, scoring more than Chelsea and Spurs. We need a new CB and keeper for nest season, the youth are top class and Sturridge and Coutinho superb………….yet people still whinge.
February 25th, 2013
Some bellend Fantasy Football fans on here……………..LOL…haven’t got a scooby.
February 25th, 2013
No FSG means Liverpool bankrupt and relegated, think about that you *!!!
February 25th, 2013
Balance is what is needed, while we all dream of investment and us Liverpool all do, however we don’t want the club at risk ever again like it was under those two men i cant even bring myself to type their names!!.
But they cant hide behind anything else now, they have there own man in at the helm, had two transfer window’s done well at cutting the crap form the squad but now its time to shift into a very very aggressive summer.
This club needs to know and now see that you cant just rely on youth and so called talent alone, LFC needs to add that better quality player and its clear.
While i would never want to be a city and chelsea and invest those shocking amounts of money, i would now have to see fsg – fsm group start to get of there butts and start going for the level above what we are and buy quality in less areas rather than many a role within the team.
We have now more players that we need to help with cutting poor wages going out for now return, carroll, wilson, spearing, pacehco, shelvey can all go, yes shelvey, why not he is is so poor he makes Sunday league players look good, he has got 4 – 5 goals, yes when playing against shite teams, this kid is so over valued its crazy…
assiadi can go to, thats another 2.5 mill brought back into the club, while borini has much to do, coutinho looks great but thats all at the moment, allen is a squad player at best so is Henderson, downing is a squad player as well, if we want to be better then we need 4- 5 quality additions into this team, that doesn’t mean we need to go and spent 120 mill, but if the club and fsg cant go out and buy 4- 5 players that have done or doing things with there careers then we are in huge trouble.
We cant wait any longer to buy better in the market, mistakes have to stop and going for quality is key.
christian Eriksen, Benedikt Howedes, Ever Banega, Dejan Lovren, dries Martins, Adrian Lopez,
If we cant bring in people even in this tier of player than yes we can all question the club and mainly fsg and john w henry.
its time to shop that bit higher if we cant we might as well pack up.
February 25th, 2013
FSG are evil . Totally wrong for our club . Anyone thinking these rich Americanos are here for anything other than to make money -are seriously stupid .
Do they love England ? No
Do they love our city ? No
Do they like or know anything about football ? No
Do they care about our fans ? No
Stop being so naive . There is only one reason they bought LFC – to milk it for everything it’s got .
Their strategy is nonsense – and shows their lack of understanding of football . Hiring an inexperienced championship manager , while not buying any top players is absolute stupidity. It’s never going to work… In fact this season has been a total failur
February 25th, 2013
The same people on here who are praising FSG , are the ones who , a few years ago , thought the sun shined out of Hicks and Gillets ar$e
They believed all the waffle from H&G , and they believe all the waffle from FSG
Do you fools EVER learn ????
You must have severely low intelligence levels … or you are just gullible fools , the types who believe everything the politicians tell you too
February 25th, 2013
and your posts are great!!! yer right go and post elsewhere will you, you know very little about the game i have worked and lived in for 30 years!!!!
don’t be a little prat now.
LFCken Reply:
February 25th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Highly stupid comment Sam. Before insulting others you should first read what he says properly and then have some point to make which you dont
February 25th, 2013
i make more points in five seconds then a person coming out and saying that Liverpool where not in deep trouble under hicks and gillet!!!!! no go away
February 25th, 2013
I see FSG for what they are – businessmen out to make money . Unfortunately we are stuck with them for a while . The only consolation is they need us to be successful for them to make money … But mark my words – they are just as ruthless and uncaring as hicks and Gillett were
February 24th, 2013
Yes and no.
If we are signing great young players like spurs signed Bale , then yes … but we didnt even try to sign Zaha … and the signings of Allen and Borini are a complete waste of money
Also , we need to be in champions league for the money , we wont qualify for that with a load of youth in our team
February 24th, 2013
top 5 ? seriously ? we should be at least in the top 3 that’s what LFC Should be aiming for.. i m sick of this rebuilding talk..which rebuilding team will have 2 legends who have won every single trophy,7-8 regular internationals ?not to mention the brialliant youth squad . all we need is at least 2 experienced players, a striker and a defender.
February 24th, 2013
Well said Raymond, Spurs are challenging for 3rd this season with similar resources and a manager in his first season so why aren’t we? We have a very poor manager in charge.
February 24th, 2013
that’s becaause of the
1) silly individual mistakes at the back. man city home and away, arsenal away, that’s six points dropped which could have 45 right now ..
2)and there are other matches where we let the opponents attack fom the start and then
we come and give it our all .. manu, tottenham
away.and a lot more.,
3)and finally the chances missed in front of goal..well ..this list goes on (although it’s soughted out now, striker needed though)
All these needs to be worked upon in the remaining fixtures and next season top 3 should be our target
February 24th, 2013
Youth team coach , that would suit him , young kids who wont question his bullshjt
February 25th, 2013
For those same BR apologist who argued for more time with BR, were you singing the same tune with Hodgson?
February 24th, 2013
Thus speaks the braindead delusional gullible generation …sigh
February 25th, 2013
Terry, you are right. To these Americans, LFC is just another “Franchise” and “Revenue Stream”. Make no mistake, FSG is not here to bring back our glory days, their action or inaction speaks volume. Sadly, there would always be turncoats like BR and IA that would gladly help these Americans achieve their sinister aim.
Don’t believe me, just look at Arsenal, another club controlled by Americans and you can see a template for the future of our club in a best case scenario basis. Their fans get fleece every season, they have the highest ticket price, won nothing for 7 years and counting and their American owner is happy at the ways things are.
Much had been said about the Glazers by BR and FSG apologists, how bad they are compared to FSG just because FSG cleared our debt and the Glazers did not do the same. However they conveniently did not mention that the Glazers had kept Utd competitive (on their way to 19th title) even with debts while we debt free but mired in mediocrity and managed by a Championship level, yes man manager.
FSG is just another H&G with different spelling.
February 25th, 2013
You have a point, just look at BR signings of Allen and Borini, 26 mill wasted.
But then again, who apponited BR ?
February 26th, 2013
FSG installed Comolli who was solely responsible for managing transfers and fees.
Kenny may have wanted the players we recruited, but he certainly wasnt responsible for what we paid…that is solely down to FSG and Comolli.
February 25th, 2013
Everything . Where is the stadium ???? They have spent Damn all NET . And their decisions in running our club have been farcical . They are clueless And are here for our cash . Only the deluded would think otherwise
February 25th, 2013
For this mess, please step forward Mr. Parry and Mr. Moores to give some answers
February 25th, 2013
What kind of TOTAL moron are you ??? Who cares about the scoring charts . It’s league table that matters you fool . LOOK at the league table – we are 8th . Liverpool football club is 8th and disgusting clowns like you think that is great . You are pathetic
February 25th, 2013
I noticed that Everton, who did not have some of the toys BR has and yet sitting comfortably above us. Hmmm
And who imposed BR on this great club?
February 25th, 2013
Coutinho superb ? Lol . After one game . Wow 4th in scoring charts ? What an achievement . Aren’t we great ! Lol
February 25th, 2013
Correct
February 25th, 2013
Also look at Randy Lerner ruining Villa and the Glazers at Man U in debt. Americans are clueless about football.
February 25th, 2013
Well said.
February 25th, 2013
Superb post son.
February 25th, 2013
Unbelievably naive and ridiculous comments . Keep dreaming
February 25th, 2013
I bet you felt the same about Uncle Woy!
February 25th, 2013
Tell us when they lied???…………….fool.
February 25th, 2013
Don’t be totally stupid .do u know anything about football ? Kop on kid
February 25th, 2013
Liverpool relegated ? LOL .Do u know anything about the way business works ? A huge global brand like Liverpool were never in real danger . Administration would have been the worst that could have happened
But administration would have been better than more years of unscrupulous american owners looking for a quick buck
February 25th, 2013
You must be talkin bout yourself . Ur the one leaving the idiotic comments
February 25th, 2013
Call me daddy.
February 25th, 2013
Fool.
February 25th, 2013
Intelligent reposte .well done
February 25th, 2013
yes we where in real danger of going into administration!!!
what do you know about your so called club?
go and find the real understanding of liverpool’s situation under and at the end of the hicks and gillett ownership and then tell me what you know then?
next time open your brain before your mouth?
February 25th, 2013
Highly stupid comment Sam. Before insulting others you should first read what he says properly and then have some point to make which you dont
February 25th, 2013
Yes Sam . Administration … so what ? 10 points deducted and the administrations find the most suitable buyers for our club . no relegation , no folding … just administration
They would be queing miles to buy Liverpool at a knock down price , and we probably would have got much better owners than FSG
so it certainly wouldn’t have been the end of the world , probably a blessing really
February 25th, 2013
Last summer – ‘we can compete with ANY club in the transfer market’ (Ian Ayre). So shut up now.
February 25th, 2013
Sam you talk and talk and talk , but none of your points make any sense . You play championship manager on these forums every day ,-
- we buy this player for 3m , that player for 7m
- we loan this player out
- we sell him for 12m , sell him for 2m
etc etc blah blah
… its all hypothetical nonsense , no one replies to your posts because there are just stupid .
You really dont understand football at all . 30years old you may be , but you haven’t grown up yet
February 25th, 2013
ps . Your funny though . I do get a laugh out of your posts