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View from the Kop

I Dream of…Arsenal?

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IN a week where we have not really learned anything new about our team, another two matches we control but lack the cutting edge to return to Anfield with 3 points, which will do nothing to convince the haters that they are wrong or create doubt in the mind of the optimist, I thought a change in tact would be refreshing (although I’m probably wrong, I usually am!).

So, I have a conundrum for you. I am going to present two cases to help gauge the modern football fan’s view and what their priorities are.

Imagine if you will you a lazy Sunday afternoon in the middle of summer, the warm sun shining, birds singing, flowers blooming and stream flowing. You are walking through a quaint countryside village with your family looking for suitable refreshments when you stumble across a rather curious shop.

Intrigued you enter, (don’t worry it’s not just for local people) and have a good old rummage around, tossing aside broken vases, dusty crockery and those odd little pottery animals and you pick up an odd looking lamp, possibly Arabic design. So dusty that you can’t read the inscription, you give it a rub…..whoooooooosh….. a genie appears (I’m picturing a big blue genie with the voice of Robin Williams, but feel free to go a different way) and he offers you one wish!

Now obviously the wish is for Liverpool to be successful once more (pffft who needs world peace eh!). The genie is happy but installs a condition! Now the span of the wish lasts 5 years and the genie says Liverpool can EITHER finish 17th in the league each year but win the League Cup, FA Cup or Europa League each year (your choice) OR Liverpool finishes 4th each year and makes no final, with a title challenge over by January……

This is an either/or deal – no mixing!

#shinyscenario

Trophies, trophies trophies, that’s what football is about! Winning things. Who doesn’t want that Wembley day out, or that European final day out. Let’s not forget, we are the most decorated side in England and that is because we win trophies; it’s in our blood, our long and illustrious history is built on a solid foundation of silverware.

Yes finishing 17th 5 consecutive years would hurt, it would hurt bad, but as the years roll by and memories fade what will you remember? How about this, who remembers the 2003/04 season? Anyone? Without looking up can anyone recall how we did in the league? Progressed in the cups? Anything about that year? Well we finished 4th and won nothing. Who remembers the season before? Yeah only a 5th place finish but a 2-0 League Cup win over United! What will last season be remembered for? Victory against Cardiff, not the league finish. How about the two seasons prior to this? The only memories there are sackings and court cases. You do not know what tomorrow will bring, but the guarantee of 5 trophies surely cannot be overlooked?
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#fourthscenario

Let’s get real here, in today’s game what do the trophies mentioned actually mean? The League Cup has always been a bit of a joke and as for the FA Cup? That lost respect a long time ago. Gone are the days of the biggest game on the English calendar, now it’s not even the last game of the season.

As for the Europa League, do me a favour, its second rate, certainly not the competition from the 70’s and 80’s. If the ‘Champions League can be potentially won by a team finishing 5th in their domestic league, what does that mean for the Europa?? Stoke?

Yes the club was built on winning but the game has changed, it’s all about money; who cares if we don’t win a thing for 5 years, by finishing 4th and qualifying for the Champions League will bring much desired revenue as well as present the club as a more attractive option for the footballing elite.

So whereas we don’t win anything for 5 years, by the end of this ‘wish’ we will be in a far stronger position to kick on and challenge with what you would imagine to be a stronger squad brought together by the promise of Champions League.

‘Where do I stand?’ Is a question I imagine you all shouting at once! Well this is very tough, albeit slightly absurd scenario, but in all honesty I imagine my leaning is towards #fourthscenario.

Regardless of trophies, this club should never ever finish 17th, let alone 5 seasons on the bounce. As some may have gathered from my previous pieces I like to look long term rather than the short term gratification. Yes we won the League Cup last year and I will remember that as years go by; where I was, who I was with what happened, but that win hasn’t really helped us, whereas a fourth place finish would have.

So do I think Arsenal have the right idea? Yes I think so, but I don’t think they have properly followed through on that. For the giant clubs Champions League is essential, but that needs to be cashed in on to better yourself which Arsenal have consistently failed to do. We are a special club, there is absolutely no doubting that. What other side could retain the likes of Suarez, Agger and Skrtel with no Champions League, I mean Arsenal can’t keep hold of their best even with Champions League football. However, in order for us to push on we need that proverbial carrot.

I realise the article is far-fetched but the debate remains sound for me, so if you choose to answer, the choice is boiled down to cup glory or Champions League qualification – where do you stand?

Would it make a difference say if the trophy accompanied a 5th place finish? Or is it the Champions League or nothing, the promise of ultimate glory! No coincidence that I chose the 2003-04 season as one that offered no memory, as without this season there would have been no Istanbul!

Come find me on twitter @timdibs
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38 comments

  • grey wolf says:

    Arsenal have the right idea ? total nonsense . 7 years no trophies , unable to compete with top clubs , regularly losing their best players because they cant compete with top clubs . Are you for real ?

    I have a better ‘scenario’ – you stop writing this rubbish , as if being a LFC fan isnt bad enough without reading your ramblings

    • Tim Williams says:

      Whilst I am impressed that a wolf has not only been able to setup an Internet connection but also access this site and respond, I am disappointed with its eyesight!,

      If you read the piece properly I stated that yes arsenal had the right idea in essence our club should view it and improve its obvious flaws (including losing their best players which I do actually mention!)

      • vixen says:

        Tim you are a total plonker

        • Tim Williams says:

          Vixen? Are you dating grey wolf? Canine responses seem like buses, none for ages and then 2 come along at once!!

          I’m called much worse, normally by my wife, so well done for recognising! But so that I can grow for our shared experience can you at least specify as to how I am a plonker?

          Much love in a non-bestial way

  • erin says:

    What Tim is saying off course, is Brendan Rogers is building the club a little bit like Arsene Wenger. Right Tim?

    • kev says:

      Rodgers is building the club like Coventry . Bad management , bringing bad players etc etc . He is not Wenger n never will be

      • erin says:

        when are people going to wake up and smell the coffee. Brendan Rogers is a walking disaster for us. Give the man 28 million and he will go for Borrini and Mr sideways pass. We now have 3 wins in 15 games. Worse season ever. Yet people believe in this impostor. I pray to God that we stay up with this guy in charge. I really do…we have no money to get rid of him and there is no one available right now. Hence, we are stuck. Give the guy another 30 million and you end up with Sturridge to solve our problems. A chelsea reject, and if the papers are to be believed, Tom Ince who has been doing well in the Championship. We are in serious trouble, serious. All those who think January will solve our problems just think for a second. What was our problem last season? You know it, scoring goals….What was the point of Allen 16 million? Sure, we could have done with another midfielder but a defensive one? One that doesnt create anything other than pass sideways–even when we are losing? We deserve better than this.

        To those who think we are no longer what we use to be, f’uck off, we are still Liverpool and 3 wins in 15, out of the CC and in danger of losing qualification of the Europa….is dreadful by Southampton and Reading standards.
        Wake up people, stop buying this.
        YNWA

        • steveO says:

          spot on 110% mate . we are not what we used to be because of the clown in charge .

          We have top top players , with a decent manager we will climb the table

        • Tim Williams says:

          Slightly off topic! I tell you what Erin, I think you have started to argue your case here and I find that interesting, love reading other people’s opinions. There are some I would challenge and others I would love you to expand on, but I don’t want to big down this piece with something not related.

          A challenge for you, Jimmy the editor always looking for new contributors that can argue their case, write a piece for him to publish and we can talk/argue there?

        • Tim Williams says:

          Can’t resist, this 1 question Steve

          Do you think the current problems and the ‘not what we used to be’ are entirely down to Rodgers?

    • Tim Williams says:

      Nope, that’s not what I’m saying at all! I wish Rodgers was having the start wenger had, he didn’t do to bad in the beginning did he!!

      This is a non Rodgers related piece created merely to see the divide and what people’s thoughts and aspirations are! Already had an interesting mix on twitter.

      • erin says:

        Tim, i went off topic because we have bigger issues at hand in our own backyard….dont have time to look at Arsenal right now. And no, I don’t dream of Arsenal for a second. Loosing their best players every year, boardroom unrest (Usmanov wrestling to take power), a manager who is too scared to spend and considers selling their best player to Man U a great piece of business! How well is it going to be when they lose that CL qualification that draws all the best players, not to mention the revenues.
        I dream of Liverpool spending money wisely on players and seeing progress. I dream of the day we will win the league….Dream of Arsenal??? you have got to be kidding me.

        • Tim Williams says:

          Erin you are quite clearly the one doing the kidding! Have you actually read th article before commentating??? Seriously?

          I also see you ignore the challenge I set!

  • Snipawes says:

    @ Grey Wolf
    yes Arsenal have gone 7 years without a trophy and yes Arsenal have not been able to challenge the top 2 for the title and yes Arsenal regularly lose thier best players

    However in those seven years Liverpool have only won the league cup (last yr) so its not like Liverpool have been sweeping up all the silverware for the last 7 yrs. Further Whilst Liverpool have been able keep hold of Suarez & co while kept selling thier top players they still finished above Liverpool in each of those last 7 years with ‘supposed’ inferior replacements, in fact they finished above Liverpool aswell as those few other clubs that sat above Liverpool but behind 4th spot. Im not saying 4th spot is something to boast about but comparing the last 7 yrs between liverpool/arsenal surely Arsenal have proved they have had the better of the two clubs the last 7 years?

  • Nate says:

    Far as I can see the point is that Arsenal have been canny in ensuring a steady stream of revenue but haven’t followed through…in the hypothetical scenario, a Liverpool team consistently finishing 4th, with all the extra revenues and associated lustre from competing at CL level, would be able to land the best players. Frankly the current squad is pretty thin…

    • Tim Williams says:

      That’s my point! Arsenal have a sound plan with little follow through. If we can keep players like Suarez with no CL, Maine who we could attract with it

      • fotheringham says:

        Tim , are you Brendan Rodgers in disguise ? The only other person to do with our club that speaks so much bullsh@t is BR .
        1st your dreaming if you think we can mirror the arsenal model , with a dope like Rodgers in charge
        2nd your dreaming if you think a player like Suarez will stick around after this season ,right now he must be thinking “how the fk can i get outta here”
        3rd Even if we were to get a decent manager , we would still be years behind arsenal , who are already miles behind che + 2 mancs

        There is only 1 way to rise to the top ( as LFC fans we shouldn’t be looking to rise to 4th or 3rd ) , that is new investors + decent manager

        • Tim Williams says:

          Fotheringham, nice to see in a piece presenting 2 options and asking for your opinion you completely ignore both to come after me!

          1st why cant the Arsenal model be mirrored with any manager, it is set down from boardroom level. Is it not a blueprint to follow to a certain extent?

          2nd I wouldnt want to presume what anybody thinks. As it stands Suarez signed a new deal in a summer when we have no CL to offer. As a player working day in day out with the coaching staff and other players will have a much keener insight than you or I as to where the club is at. If he or any player is at the club only because the club offers CL is that a player we really want? Agger epitomised for me the type of player I want for my club, someone who realises how special and unique the club is and doesnt care about the poun note.

          3rd football is a funny game and things can change in an instant. Who would have thought we would be where we are now after we came 2nd? Fergie retiring/wenger leaving could have the same impact on those clubs that Dalglish leaving first time had on us, Mansour or Roman could get bored or worse leaving the clubs in the dumps. What is important is that the club is run corrctly off the pitch, and to some extent that is one of the biggest qualities of arsenal no?

          If we get a sugar daddy then fine, but sruely as fans it is our job to get behind the team and support in the darkest days otherwise we dont deserve to celebrate in the brighter ones?

  • @babakrdaemi says:

    I agree with you to a point, however, the problem Arsenal have with keeping players is wages and the quality of the player. Suarez is a very good player, however, its only this season he has started scoring goals.

    Give him 1 more two max seasons scoring goals without success and he will go. Skertel and Agger are not top quality so you cI disagree with your point about keeping them.

    I feel for Liverpool, although Liverpool fell away before Chelsea ruined our game. Now City have transformed it beyond recognition.

    I believe Arsenal will progress again. and because of the strategy taken. It is taking a while and we are losing players, however, look at those players. Cesc, Nasri, RvP are the last 3 big players. Do you believe Liverpool could have kept them in the same conditions? I dont.

    Great blog, good points, slightly delusional, however, thats your right as a football supporter and one of a club with the great history Liverpool has.
    For what its worth I think Rodgers will come good for you.

    • Tim Williams says:

      appreciate your points and am more thankful than you know that you take the time to explain your reasoning as many dont.

      the wage structure at arsenal is a big problem as they believe in equality of all which saw the likes of RVP on around the same as a Chamakh, bonkers.

      All we can ask for at the moment on and off the pitch is patience, Liverpool is a huge ship and turning it round will not be a quick process unless you have a mansour or roman, and even then they didnt get success over night.

      Disagree with you about Agger, when he is fit he is easily one of the best defenders on the planet, and skrtel, although prone to an odd rick is a top 4, CL player no doubt.
      No doubt Chelsea and City have ruined the game somewhat, but Rafa showed that time and patience can earn success here and spain, but should have been backed fully at Anfield. Those twerps didnt financially and neither did certain sections of our fans (probably the same now calling for Rodgers head and Rafa to come back).

      How much of Arsenals continued CL qualification is down to Wenger? Surely it can not be doubted than when a manager is at a club for a considerable amount of time, their influence can inspire more average players and install a system they know so well that the entire club can work towards it. Fergie and Wenger have shown this.

      We have kept Suarez, Skrtel and Agger in worse conditions that Arsenal lost RVP, Nasri and Cesc so why not?

      As an asidem who is ypour team?

      • GoonerDave says:

        You have kept Suarez, Skrtel and Agger, but how many of those players have been offered 200K a week from another club?
        If Suarez keeps banging them in, he will be gone. Thats the way it goes. You will get megabucks for him though.
        I dont think Skrtel or Agger are close to the quality of Suarez.
        Good luck for the rest of the season, from an Arsenal fan.

        • Tim Williams says:

          Hi GoonerDave,

          Welcome to our site.

          We know for a fact an offer was received from Suarez and city were chasing agger. In today’s climate they will have been made well aware what the chasing clubs were offering, that’s why you see so many players forcing transfers. Technically tapping up but all clubs do it. As an arsenal fan do you think your wage structure is to blame for losing the likes of cesc, Basra and Rvp? Do you think they are worth it?

          Suarez for me should be considered around about top 5 players on the planet. People state he can’t finish which lets him down, and its hard to ignore chane to goal ratio, but in reality he creates so many chances for himself that if he had a better finish percentage he would have messi stats. He is crazy good.

          As for agger I think when fully fit there are few better centre backs in world football. Skrtel has come a long way and whilst not in that upper echelon like agger is easily good enough to be playing CL and top 4. Yes he is prone to a rick but he is a beast.

          I hope you come back for a chat, if not good luck to you (apart from when we play you!!)

  • VRM says:

    Finishing 17th each year will not get you qualified for the Europa league so you can strike that off from your genie list

  • vjm says:

    We should follow Dortmund model and not arsenal. One thing is clear we have the most worst scouting system. The sooner we change our scouting network faster we build as a force.

    • Tim Williams says:

      I chose arsenal, due to us being in the same league and that constant question about trophies that surrounds them.

      Our scouting, or at least the clubs follow up on scouting has been put to shame by the likes of Newcastle, but since the last window there has been changes so that should be interesting.

      Given the current structure what would the club need to do to ‘do a Dortmund’ in your mind?

    • simon says:

      vjm – its nothing to do with scouting network , we have some of the finest youth in world football , the finest liverpool ever had .

      problem is , we have had managers wasting money on known players , u dont need a scout to tell u downings not worth 20m or joe Allen is a total waste of 15m . Any moron can see that , just not the managers we have had

  • simon says:

    Wow , u wrote an article not directly ( it still is in meaning ) , not directly kissing rodgers or fsg arses , well done for the (slight ) restraint .
    still , i suppose you are preparing next weeks “Rodgers tactical genius ” article for , after the easy victory on saturday

    • Tim Williams says:

      You seem to have a strange obsession on me and what yo think are my opinions on the manager and the owners despite in writing me labelling my reservation for both for now. It seems that anybody who doesn’t wan Rodgers sacked this second is kissing their arses.

      I have no idea yet what my piece will be on next week, I like to take things in first, allow then to settle before giving my view, the direc opposite of knee-jerk.

      The article has nothing to do with ei the owners or the manager, but more to do with fan perspective in the current climate. To keep on topic, with this hypothetical situation, where do you stand Simon?

      • simon says:

        its an unrealistic scenario but from a selfish point of view , not caring about finances etc , i would take a cup
        saying 17th is silly , if we finished 17th the owners and manager should be taken out + shot .
        but i wouldn’t swap last seasons 7th and cup , for 4th place

        • Tim Williams says:

          Did….did…Di this just happen? Simon we engaged rationally about the piece!! I’m proud of us I really am!

          Of course the scenario is unrealistic, it contained a genie! But in reality what difference bar pride, is there between 5th and 17th?

          Selfishly I agree with you (us sort of agreeing was the first step in the Mayan doomsday prophecy no? Closely followed by Bob!), trophies wins and finals are magical, but the game has changed, for he worse in some ways, 4th means more to any club than say an fa cup! Sad but true

  • wesker says:

    Who Cares ? Really who cares ? LFC is going thru the biggest crisis in modern history , there should only be 1 thing on everyone’s mind – when are we going to sack that useless self-absorbed dope we call Brendan Rodgers ?

    That is All that matters

    • Tim Williams says:

      Please expand on your comments, why do you think we re in our biggest crisis, what has caused this, what can be done. See if you can reply wi more than league position

  • Gooner-Baz says:

    As an Arsenal fan, reading this article and the many comments that followed has certainly peaked my interest. 

    I rarely post comments because in most cases, the population of commenters are ignorant, illiterate children who have an extremely tiny concept of the reality of the game, past and present.

    But before I delve into the deeply complex issues being raised by Tim and the subsequent backlash,  I’d like to point out that this is, in fact, a fantastic piece. 

    I read hundreds of news articles and blogs every month and the majority are based on the same predictable debates. Who should we buy? Who should go? The reasons why we’re shit etc etc. 

    Whereas this piece veers more into a rarely explored issue. Which direction forward is more preferable? 

    So… as a die-hard, sing among the silent,  loved for 29 years, Arsenal supporter I feel I need to address this argument on the vindication behind ‘The Arsenal blueprint’. 

     We all know the facts. No trophies in 7 seasons. All football fans of all teams rightly see this as far beyond acceptable. Failure to hold on our best players. Yes, this is true but each case should be addressed individually. 

    Thierry – A complete success story. Given us his best years for the club. Won us titles, broke records… became the greatest striker the EPL has ever seen. Left as a legend. 

    Cesc – a no brainer. There was no way to stop this, everyone knew it was his future to rejoin Barca no matter the measure of our success. In fact we’d succeeded in keeping him a year longer than he’d planned. 

    RVP – a massive blow no doubt. Our star man. Scored for fun. Yet…. the single cause for Arsenal to be branded a one man team. A man so relied upon we were terrified of an injury. Ask yourselves this, how many players do you know could spend 7 seasons at a club failing to live up to his potential, forever struck down with injuries, completely forgotten about for many seasons by other clubs and their fans, belittled, hounded by the media for crashing a sports car, causing locker room bust ups and accused of rape…. STILL go on to be sold for £25m with his age catching him up fast?

    Very, very few. 

    I wouldn’t call these losses complete failures and unrepairable destruction of the club. Would you? Honestly?

    The other glaring issue with the ‘Arsenal way’ is ofcourse, the failure to spend big on individual stars. This, above everything else, has brought out the plastic ‘fans’ who know how to do nothing else but boo loudly at anyone at every opportunity.  It seems to be growing at a distasteful rate. 

    ‘We want our Arsenal back’ they say. What Arsenal was this? The Arsenal who slogged out 1-0 wins to still win very little and finish top of midtable at best. That Arsenal?

    Perhaps they mean the Arsenal that played the most beautiful ever, won league titles, knocked United off their perch and became Invincible? Well that was Wengers doing ofcourse. 

    I put all this to you because it does have relevance with the Liverpool debate occurring here.  Let’s look at the positives of The Arsenal Blueprint. 

    In a world where western society have increasingly grown accustomed to convenience, everything has become about instantaneous gratification. Give me what I want and don’t make me wait. 

    This has unsurprisingly flowed into football. When looked at from a wide perspective it’s become laughable. 80% of the EPL’s competitors are now owned by foreign investors of the billionaire variety. A large portion of which are from Asia, possibly the most removed continent from competitive football on the globe. Everybody seems to want big billionaires to buy their club, pump them full of money and play Football Manager 2013 with them. Buy the most known and popular names, regardless of why or whether they’re needed and what problems that may cause. 

    City, It worked for them. They won an FA Cup and a league title…. Just.  Well worth the £400m spent the last 3 years.

    Sure, it worked for Chelsea. The biggest spending English club in history. They won 3 league titles 4 FA Cups and a Champions League. All for over £600m in 5 years.

    But this fast-track, irresponsible way of running a club never lasts.

    Go back further, it worked for Blackburn. They bought the league right under the noses of Ferguson. Where are they now? 

    Despite the success that City and Chelsea have received from irresponsible money-management, there have been more victims than victors who have diced with debt. 

    Charlton, Middlesbrough,  Millwall, Crystal Palace, Leicester City, Derby County, Wimbledon, Leeds, Portsmouth and ofcourse Rangers.

    All of them once consistently playing in the top flight of their nations and now most of them either wallowing in lower leagues having never recovered or completely decimated beyond short-term repair.  None of which have made it back to the top since filing for administration. 

    Now ofcourse the complaints of the Arsenal Blueprint are not that we should be pumping £500m into player signings. It is that we don’t spend what we CAN spend. 

    Well, yes…. It’s a frustrating fact that despite boasting better profits than ALL of the EPL the past few seasons, it’s not going towards strengthening the squad as most of us would like. 

    But record fees for players are not guarantees of success. United broke their record fee when they signed Juan Sebastian Veron. He was a disaster. 

    Liverpool paid exorbitant money for Andy Caroll. He was a disaster. 

    I could list many many more. I’ll give you one more. Fernando Torres. 50 million. Not once has he rekindled the form he showed for Liverpool or better yet his playing days in La liga. So obsessed is his failed price tag Infact, that he has single handedly become the entire focus of a multi-billion pound club, causing the sacking of a manager who won the club the Champions League and part-reason for the rage at which this clubs fans are now in over the appointment of the new manager. 

    None of our fans complained when we signed players on the cheap back when Wenger started out did they? 

    Thierry Henry, Anelka, Pires, Fabregas. Not a peep about that now eh? 

    I digress. Wenger has admitted that he cannot possibly compete with City and Chelsea financially and that will be the case until the FFP comes into affect. 

    Yet still, the club has played Champions League football for 12 consecutive years. Never finishing below 4th. 

    Tottenham Hotspur have spent over £150 million MORE than Arsenal on players in the past 10 years and STILL failed to surpass their North London rivals in their achievements. 

    So here’s my point. Tim has posed the question of whether you’d prefer lowly league finishes with the guarantee of moderate silverware OR no silverware but guaranteed top 4 finishes and the very elite footbaing competition to compete in year after year after year. 

    Liverpool FC, regardless of recent achievements or lack of, are one of the biggest institutions in English football and have been for the past 60 years. Despite the lack of league titles or top 3 finishes in the past 10 of these years, the real supporters of Liverpool are only upset because they know their team should be up their where United and Chelsea and City are now. They should be legitimately challenging for the top trophies year after year. 

    This is also why Arsenal seem to receive the most criticism of all EPL teams when it comes to clubs not fulfilling their potential. 

    Nobody criticises Spurs or Everton or Fulham for not winning a major trophy in 7 years… Because truly, 99% of the EPL fans do look upon these clubs and consider them one of the big boys. 

    So surely the pressure and criticism that our red clubs recieve are based on the view that both our great clubs SHOULD be up their with the elite. 

    Therefore, the only choice must be to finish in the top four year after year.  Follow the Arsenal blueprint. 

    This is not me saying that top 4 7 years running and no trophies is enough, it’s not ofcourse but what it shows is that no matter how much money your rivals burn through to play fantasy football for a few years, you’re still only a couple of strong players away from matching them. 

    And that’s where the hole is. Wenger has yet to find those 2 or 3 key players in time before more want out. 

    Ofcourse,  we can rattle off obvious names like Huntelaar or Goetze or Llorente but the big spenders like them too ya know. 

    I fear for Liverpool ‘fans’ who are already screaming in rage at how wrong Brendan Rogers is for the job. He hasn’t even had a full season yet and these people are crying out for his head.

    Does that mean that you have witnessed, conclusively, beyond any measure of doubt, all you have seen of his ability to turn around a side absolutely destroyed by a Liverpool legend you had so much faith in.. well…. For awhile atleast. 

    A man who was granted access to months and months of training sessions in both the camps of Barcelona and Real Madrid. A man who took a Welsh championship side and showed the top flight how to play football without a single known star in the team. 

    A man who was quoted by another manager as ‘One of the brightest and most intelligent young managers I have ever worked with, he will have huge success with the club that shows faith in him.’

    Oh, that manager was ego-centric Jose Mourinho by the way, who Rogers had worked very close with for many years. 

    Yet such a huge contingent of Reds are calling for him to be booted out. This quick fix mentality of ‘fans’ on their managers is a cancer that is spreading through the Premier League. These fans who already want Rogers out sound sadly familiar. There is another club who consistently sack managers without a fair fight…. Chelsea.

    Look how the fans are feeling now, look at the manager they have now.  That could easily be Liverpool in a couple more years…. Without the titles…. Or the money. 

    Imagine if Ferguson HAD been sacked in his early days at United when relegation was looming over them? Where would they be now?

    What if Arsenal had sacked Wenger for not delivering the champions league in his first attempt? Would we ever have been invincible? Would we have the cash we are now starting to really boast about?

    Spurs fans were up in arms in disgust at sacking Harry and employing AVB yet in his first season he has done what none of their last 5 managers had managed to…. be placed above Arsenal and 3 points from top 3 before the winter month has even started.

    Truly, I believe that real supporters, those who genuinely adore their club do not cry for the quick fix or the mega billions Arab tycoon to buy them the league. 

    They show faith and patience and passion for what they have and enjoy far more to talk about what they have rather than what they lack. 

    The excitement and the potential of Sterling. The world class trickery and flair of Suarez. The leadership and loyalty of Gerrard and Skrtel. The quick feet and attacking minds of Assaidi and Suso. The potential to have one of the greatest passers and playmakers in modern football in Sahin. 

    You have all of this already and yet Rogers is still in the early stages of rebuilding a decimated Liverpool to which the blame lies firmly at the board and whichever idiot hired Damien Comolli and the utter irresponsibility to allow a desperate man to burn 35million on the most overrated English striker since Emile Heskey. 

    Yes, Rogers has made some mistakes. Some of his signings and tactical decisions have been a disappointment but that is not on the manager completely. These players have disrespected the expectations of the Kop by not performing like they can. On top of this he is trying to discover the best possible Liverpool squad with what he has and as they say, you only learn by your mistakes. 

    Managers coming into the EPL and setting the world alight in their first full season at a club is extremely rare and usually requires a truck full of money. 

    Only Wenger has managed this recently without that truck and when those trucks sped past him, his policies (holes they may have) have kept us fighting the top 3 for 13 years in a row. 

    • Tim Williams says:

      Gooner-Baz that is without doubt the best reply I have ever had on anything that I have written, thank you. You have shown class, knowledge and insight. I half expected some arsenal fan responses to have a go at me at a perceived ‘dissing’ of their club, when this article was far from it, thank you for reading thoroughly and grasping the underlying points I was trying to put across. It seems that again the most abuse I get is from fellow reds!

      I think the in depth insight you have provided about your club will actual be read by some reds and digested properly without responses such as ‘arsenal nob’ ‘talk about ure own club’ and the like, but hopefully that sort will be in bed ahead of school tomorrow. I won’t lie, if billionaire ted of wwf skit fame but Liverpool tomorrow and signed falcao, gotze etc etc of course I would love it, who wouldn’t, but in reality I want my club run properly and returning to an age where we make stars, where we can be proud of what we achieve because of the graft we put in. I don’t know if FSG are fit for purpose yet, they need to learn from their mistakes and show the club they are here for the right reasons. I have more confidence in Rodgers, whilst not fawning over him I refuse to right him off in December, particularly when I know the state of the club prior to his arrival.

      I hope you check back on this article as I would love to talk further with you, got loads of questions I would like to ask about your club. *article idea forming*

  • simon says:

    I am quite capable of engaging rationally but 9 out of 10 of ur articles annoy me . I find them utterly biased , nonsensical , farsical , narrow minded , fanciful and lacking knowledge or intelligence .
    I care deeply about LFC and i every time i think about whats happening to my club, since i realised what fkers FSG are , i get angry . And i think about it a lot . When i see ur articles defending them or that clown BR i get angry . Im normally quite easy going but someone defending them is to me the same as someone insulting LFC .

    You dont yet realise the depth of the situation we are coming to . Things are about to get a lot worse

    • Tim Williams says:

      You get annoyed by my articles without seemingly reading them! Not once have I unquestionably defended either manager, in fact on more than one occasion I have heavily criticised the owners, and as for Rodgers I have stated that my opinion is reserved. The man took over a team whose confidence was rock bottom and form akin to a relegated side, had to cope with senior players leaving, Lucas being injured for most of his tenure and trying to implement a new style yet have completely written him off by December? I don’t know what miracle worker you wanted, but it was going to be an uphill battle reversing our fortunes first and foremost.

      What I do quite often is assume extremes of an argument, both sides, before proffering my humble opinion. To claim me biased based on my opinion is odd, what am I biased for? To question my knowledge without countering any opinion or supporting your own says more about you than me, and to question my intelligence? Duuuuude really? I am entitled to think differently to you and this doesn’t make me wrong.

      Perhaps if you actually read before replying you wouldn’t get so annoyed.

      You talk about th ‘depth of situation’ we are coming too, enlighten us…. What do you? If you care for the club as you say you do, educate people on what you know! Instead of being offensive, slagging off people you don’t know and insulting writers and commenters, offer up your own thoughts. If things are as bad as you say they are and younhaveknowledge or proof they you need to share.

      But in the meantime at least read what is written before you comment and accuse

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