WHEN Allen signed Rodgers claimed he was a bargain at £15m and would have paid a great deal more for the former Swansea playmaker.
Despite inheriting a squad full of midfielders, and a team that had struggled to score goals, Rodgers’ main transfer target was the diminutive Welsh man.
Out went Aquilani (who despite recovering his fitness was never given a chance by a string of managers), then Charlie Adam (whose great range of passing did not compensate for his snail-like pace, poor tackling and penchant for the Hollywood pass) and nearly Henderson (who despite an up and down first season had just turned 22 and is England’s under-21 captain).
In came Joe.
A couple of games into a difficult start to the season the much anticipated return of Lucas was dealt a big blow with his thigh injury vs. Man City. Allen, still only 22, found himself as the holding midfield player (or deep-lying playmaker if you prefer) and through a series of combative displays coupled with tidy possession and good movement, he began to impress.
Rodgers loves to use extremities in his praise, and no other player has been called ‘outstanding’, ‘fantastic’ or ‘brilliant’ quite as much as Allen. But issues started to be raised.
Alan Shearer on Match of the Day stated Joe Allen passed sideways and backwards too much when there were better options forward. With Liverpool continually struggling to win games Allen was scrutinised more and more – he was getting out-muscled too often, he only played simple passes, he only played the ball along the ground and he doesn’t look to be penetrative.
Brendan Rodgers has often come to Allen’s aid in the press, claiming Shearer doesn’t understand the requirements of the position (although Pirlo and Alonso, probably the two best in that role, don’t have problems being creative from deeper positions) and that Allen is much better in a more advanced position (despite only scoring 7 goals in 130 games for Swansea).
Well, Lucas is back now. Our sorely missed Brazilian is not yet at his peak but we’ve won both Premier League games he’s started. An interesting stat from Opta showed that while Allen and the mysteriously under-used Sahin mainly pass to Skrtel and Agger, the player Lucas has passed to most since his return is Gerrard.
The West Ham game was another interesting barometer.
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This was far from our best game, even if we did have 61% possession, and for large periods we were continually pummelled airily by the Hammers. Our centre-halves and Lucas were certainly earning their wages but Joe Allen, like for much of the last month, was struggling to make an impact. Diame is a tough player to handle, but while Lucas & Gerrard lost out at times (e.g. Gerrard’s booking scything down Diame when on the counter attack) , they were both able to come back and still win duels against him and effect our play positively when we did have the ball. Allen, playing in his favoured midfield role, made little impact on the game defensively or offensively.
Few would blame him for the penalty, and there’s no doubt he worked as hard as he could, but the positional sense and game intelligence I was hoping to see was lacking. In the difficult middle period of the game, when Pepe had possession and Lucas and the two centre-backs were being marked, Joe wasn’t giving Pepe an option, leading too often to a long kick forward and a loss of possession. Furthermore, he kept giving the ball away when attempting fairly standard passes, something he wasn’t doing at the beginning of the season.
Brendan Rodgers has acknowledged his dip in form, partly putting it down to becoming a new father and more sleepless nights. In certain situations it’s okay to just keep the ball ticking over but at a club like Liverpool you need to do more to earn your place. Certainly there have been times when Sahin or Shelvey should have started but Rodgers’ eagerness to prove the value of his new signing (much like Kenny repeatedly played Henderson at right midfield when Kuyt was a better choice) is clouding his judgment.
Henderson still has a lot to prove, but there was an improvement when he came on – Jordan using his energy well to both harry the opposition and get forward on the break, making the key cross for our winner. Clearly Diame going off injured made as big a difference as Jordan’s introduction, but when in the entire game did Allen make a run like Henderson did for the goal?
Allen is a talented young player, but at the moment Sahin is better technically, Suso is a better passer, Henderson is more athletic and Shelvey is far more dangerous offensively. Joe looks like he’s struggling for confidence while every performance is bringing added criticism. Xabi Alonso cost £10.7m in 2004 as a young 23 year old and the £15 million paid for Allen is a similar amount taking into account football inflation. Clearly Joe is a very different type of midfielder to Xabi, but if Joe is really worth £15m, how much is Jonjo worth at just 20 years of age?
The jury’s out on Joe at the moment, a good start followed by a disappointing dip. The first thing Brendan should do, so his remaining confidence isn’t completely shot, is take him out of the firing line and reintroduce him after he’s had some good rest and time to work out his problems on the training field. With Luis back against Villa, I certainly hope to see the deserving Shelvey joining Lucas and Gerrard in our midfield on Saturday.
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Good Article .
Sometimes Players cant handle the big cities , the big clubs , the big expectations . I definitely think that what we have here , as someone said already he is a quiet sort , not much of a personality , sometimes you need to be a bit of a personality to make it at a club as big as ours
He has ability but so have many many others who failed here – Morientes , Cheyrou , Gonzales to name a few
What we cant afford is a player not doing it every week , who is clearly a liability to the team . He must go
Thanks Redrum. I think the first step is to stop playing him ahead of better performing players. Shelvey is a bigger talent and a better player at 20. Sahin was German player of the year and is warming the bench instead of him! BR eventually started benching Borini, I hope the same with Allen.
Sahin has also stated that Rodgers has been playing him out of position , a sitting midfield role he says suits him
Surely a proven player like Sahin should play where he is best instead of the hapless Allen ?
I think this is a valid point redrum , Allen looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights sometimes , maybe he was just not ready for a big club , maybe he never will be
Not so long ago we had players like Alonso ,Mascherano, or Hamann , how Rodgers has taken us backwards with Allen , he is not good enough for Liverpool – i would rather Spearing or Aquilani back
for 15m , i would expect something
goals ? no
assists ? no
solid cover for defense ? no
phsical presence ? no
inspiration even ? no
oh i forgot , he has pass it 10 yards to the full backs . well done brendan , really worth 15m
makes you wonder if brendan was doing his old pals at swansea a favour
do you know that Allen has actually passed it forwards more times than he has passed it backwards?
Did you know that he has won possession more times than any other player in the league this season?
He was our best player in the opening games of the season?
but hey, highlighting facts rather than bandwagon jumping is probably just me trolling
yes you just talk sh*t , he gets it deep beside the 2 centre backs and passes it 10 yards to advancing full backs , slightly forward , then drops deep to recieve and passes it to centre back . etc etc
he was never our best player , thats just showing your stupidity
do i now? I must have imagined him winning the clubs player of the month award no? silly me
ah so you change part of your critique to suit a fact I gave? poor show?
care to address the point about hi winning possession more times than anyone else in the league? perhaps he is trying to egt out of the way and the ball hits him? luck?
If im wrong im wrong, wont be the first time, but as you think differently to me, instead addressing me as fool are claiming I spout faeces (not unlike troll behaviour itself you know) why dont you attempt to show that I am wrong?? show me the error of my ways
Issac you do not seem to be watching the matches with any kind of attention. Against Southhampton he was much more forward and more effective in the forward areas and against West Ham please tell me who was really able to deal with their physicality?
Skertl – torrid time by Cole, Agger- a little better, SG – an own goal, Reina – Flapping at crosses, Lucas – Bossed by Diame, Johnson – given the run around by Jarvis. Understand, I am not criticising our players, but as a team we did not play well, so you cannot single out Joe Allen for all the flak. By the way, I am not aware of the stats but I am sure that SG will have a high % of misplaced passes, definitely more than Allen. If SG can have a slip in form then why can’t Allen? Watch Barcelona and see what Xavi and Inietsa do, that’s what Allen will do, give him time. Remember Lucas.
Allen in one word – pathetic
there you have it ladies and gentlemen, about as conclusive as you can get on the subject, no need to explain your thoughts or opinions when you can sum it up in a word….wow
what the f*@k is your problem ? if i wanted to write long explanation i would do, i didnt want to, so what ? no point anyway everyone else said it all . why dont u f*@k ofg and stop slagging people ?
haha you done well there Mikey lad! In the same sentence you ask me to stop slagging people you also tell me to ‘go forth and multiply’.
As for my problem? I dont have one. Your contribution is valid and welcomed, shame like so many others you dont acually support it. but hey thats your choice dude, I look forwrd to our next chat
As i have said b4 in other posts , Joe Allen is easily one lf the worst players i have ever seen play for us , he is like a little boy lost on a field of men .
why is he? please expand, if you are going to make such a statement then at least back it up.
I don’t know why I still bother reading this page. Somebody puts forward a perfectly valid argument, and he/she gets shot down by ill informed, foul mouthed, insulting, illiterate morons, who now, for some unknown reason are shouting for the return of Spearing, when not many months ago they wanted his head on a plate for constantly losing the ball and putting the defense in trouble. What happened to the knowledgable Liverpool supporter? Unfortunately they have been replaced by kids whose only football knowledge has come from TV games, and wanting instant gratification.
Have to say but im with you on this Bill. I remember a young Welsh lad coming to the club and taking about a year to score his first goal and longer still to settle, yet he was given time as his qualities were known to those working day in day out with him and he did ok! who was he? Ian Rush.
Well said Bill too many juvenile people giving juvenile answers, as I’ve always known that Liverpool supporters have always been patient and knowledgable but now days kids don’t read they play pc games and think they know everything about football.
Well Bill, I agree with you. Too many people seem to just want to tear down and denigrate everything about Liverpool without reason, without thought. Typical juvenile delinquent thinking, you are cool only if you criticise those in authority/power(read FSG and BR).
no its called constructive criticism , and the writer put thought and reason into it
. or should fans never be critical of their team ?
u clown
There is nothing constructive about one sentence critism, it’s only constructive when your trying to help not slagging them off.
U clown
I agree with just about everything this article says , all the alternatives are clearly better options than Allen at the moment . Although i dont know how you can say the jury is still out , Liverpool fans are not stupid , we have had 20+ games to judge him and we really dont need any more to see he is not Liverpool class
how do you respond to the statistic that he has won possession more times than any other player in the league??
nonsense those stats , care to print proof ?
How are they nonsense?? It is quite clear that it shows he has won possession more times than anyone! Not a percentage, or fudged, it’s a simple straight forward stat.
It’s freely available on the net, epl index article written yesterday. I don’t just spout out one liners I try to support my opinion
http://www.eplindex.com/23272/epls-top-players-clear-cut-chances-chance-creation-frequency.html/3
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha most possesion wins WTF ? firstly stats are rubbish , secondly most possesion wins , ha ha ha ha ha , not goals ? not assists ? not crosses ? not dribbles ?
who makes this rubbish up ? in 2nd place in that category was the great …. francis mulumbu , and in 3rd the fantastic midfielder that is ….. mark noble .
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha , what a load of rubbish , they probably have stats for most air kicks , and the most waves to the crowd too
‘Stats are rubbish’ wow, that says a lot. How is it rubbish? He has won possession for Liverpool more times than anyone, I would say that was a good thing? No? So because mulumbu (who was pretty effective against us) and noble aren’t a ‘vanmessiesta’ type name they are rubbish?
So you slate Allen because he isn’t scoring, or dribbling or crossing or assisting, will you slam Lucas for the same?
You can only score goals and win games IF you have the ball in the first place. The opposition will not do it for you!
Glad you agree Harvey. I believe the jury’s still out because Allen started his career (in the Lucas role) rather brightly and because he’s only 22 so he’s got time to improve. Reading the comments on my article it seems there are those that are frustrated with him (like me) but also those who are rather happy with him as he is, so I guess even among fans on this site opinions are mixed.
I’m not sure happy with him as he is, is the right term, I think the majority of the team need to continue to click up the gears and build on the form we have shown.
My defence of him has been in light of some ridiculous statements. I can see where your frustrations lie with him, but as you rightly said he has time on his side and what is already a decent building block
some ‘slower’ fans seem to need a lot longer it seems LOL
Some interesting valid comments and some dross.
That said I haven’t as yet made my mind up on Allen. The comment about the £26m spent on Allen and Borini however is pretty close to hitting the nail on the head and underlines our transfer policy for far too long. Both players are untested at the business end of the prem league yet we spend pretty much all our budget on them. Yes they may come good in time and prove to be worth the cash, but at this time we had to spend more wisely. For example we could have bought Dembele instead of Allen – a big physical player who has an eye for goal and a fabulous first touch. He was raved about by most of his peers last year and would have added some class and steel.
Allen doesn’t possess the same drive or goal threat yet we spent significantly more on yet another midfielder.
Maybe we should be expecting more from Allen considering Sahin can’t get a game, but is it also worth looking at Stevie G and saying we should be expecting more from him? Seems to me he spends just as long as Lucas/Allen playing deep and has recently stopped being the goal threat he should be. I don’t buy the age argument as fat Frank is two years older and still maintains an attacking threat.
Maybe it is just easier to look at Allen and blame him rather than at Gerrards return for us this season…?
I hate to see people blaming stevie , its BRs fault for playing him out of position , whereas Allen is just a poor player
A stupid comment Harvey haven’t u realized that Allen is being out of position as well, now that Lucas is back Allen will pushed up forward at least give him the chance to prove himself there.
A stupid comment Matt , havent u realised that Allen has not been out of position and thats where he played all last season , Rodgers uses 2 holding and 1 attacking . Lucas and Allen both hold in rodgers’s sytem
I know BR likes to play 2 holding MFs but I have noticed that Allen has been further up forward in the last 2 games and that’s what BR said in a interview I watched. I’m not saying he’s doing well so far being further up the park far from it all I’m saying is give him more time adjust.
how is gerrard out of position? BR has already stated he isn’t specifically asking Stevie to hold back.
Not blaming Stevie but I think even he would admit his goal return or even shots attempted is way down on his very high standards.
Pre-season he was linking with Suarez very well yet this doesn’t seem to be as evident lately.
Gerrard was out of position ,he was playing Sahin further up with Gerrard holding , Gerrard and Sahin out of best position , with neither happy about it
at least Gerrard has contributed some goals and assists . Allen has given us feck all
I think the comparisons to Poulson are a bit unfair , he was one of the worst ever , but i do think comparisons to Spearing are accurate
I dont think Spearing was ever that bad and i certainly never wanted him to leave , i think he is an excellent squad player .
Spearing offers a lot more than Allen , ,ore forward thinking , tougher , snappier into the tackle and less easily pushed around
Dont get me wrong , i would rather someone better than Spearing -but Spearing is better than Allen , so it was 15m wasted
Spearing and Allen are different types of midfielders and it is bonkers to liken them to one another. Spearing a game is centred around his ability to tackle and Harris in the mould of a mascherano. Allen’s game centres around passing and ball retention, something he does very well, even with his dip in form him completes 9 out of 10 passes, one of the best in the league. Like it or not this is the style Liverpool are playing to now.
I just hope you are not so quick to judge every player who pulls on a red shirt. Did you boo Lucas at any point? Say he wasn’t good enough?
I must agree with the general consensus that Jioe Allen is a very poor player and not worth 15m . We would probably only get 3-5m back for him now .
Not a big a waste as Carroll but still a criminal waste of our funds
YNWA
Surely you can only assess whether a player was a waste of money or not when they leave e club?? Mcallister and degen both signed on frees but only one was a waste of money. Alonso was a snip at 10m but Pilsen a complete waste at 4m. Writing a player off after 16 league games and stating its a waste of money is unbelievably short sighted, especially when you actually do some digging into available information.
F*@k off timmy , you have trolled nearly everyone’s comments , u that desperate for attention ? get a life u toby
Nice to see you are back vickers and polite as usual in your normal manner. I don’t think you understand what a troll is. I am politely presenting a counter point backed up with some facts.
If I wanted attention I’m not sure a football forum and complete strangers would be where I would head.
Feeling the need to swear at someone you don’t know and getting angry because you have been challenged and I need a life?? You have done well there vickers lad
Allen has a little ability but not enough for a big club like ours , he is easily the most useless ineffective player ive seen since salif diao . If Rodgers had balls he would dump him but … he wont , and the team will continue to suffer cause of it
Been very dissapointing for mine. Expect more for $15m no doubt. That’s not to say that he won’t become a star but on what he’s produced to date, he’s been average at best.
Is pushed of the ball, lacks penetration, lacks pace, lacks a killer ball and in recent weeks has continually been found in poor devensive positions resulting in fouls and subsequent set peices for the opposition.
Yes he keeps posession. But he does that at the absolute expense of creating any opportunities. Of course there’s a time and a place to put the killer ball in but he seems far more content to pass backward and sideways. More penetration please!!!!
Fingers crossed he comes good. Those saying they would rather Spearing must be on some pretty good gear… I liked the way he linked up with Sturridge in the Olympics so maybe that will happen again.
Far to early to right on or off this bloke. But has been dissapointing to date.
Everyone wants more penetration!
I think to judge a player so soon is seriously misguided. His role in the side has been restricted in the absence of a Lucas type player.
I find people are very judgemental/blinkered when they don’t like a player. For starters his primary role in the team is to recycle the ball, to be that option to be an outlet which will allow the more advanced players to adopt a pass and move philosophy. How much movement did Molly ever off personally compared to what he allowed others to do. This is a team game and allens, and Lucas are there to allow the Gerard’s and sterlings etc etc to be more offensively minded.
In terms of his defensive ability, besides the possession he has won for us which I allude to earlier, he is not as weak as those make out. Yes he will often have a stature disadvantage but he still wins more than half the duels he goes for at 50.3% which is more than carrick (42.1%), and their roles are similar. Sandro at spurs is only at 52.8% for example.
Has he been at his best recently? No, but if he is providing for the team what is when not in form this should surely get better as he settles and finds his feet
As fans if we’re not being judgmental along the way we’re kidding ourselves. That’s not to say the judgments on what he’s produced as a 22yo new signing should lead to concrete opinions on what his career will be. But certainly opinions based on what he’s produced to date.
I take your point about possession retention and ball winning. But coupled with his inadiquecies that are at the fore right now, that’s not $15m worth…
It is dangerous territory to say what is or isn’t worth what whilst still a the club. Future is undecided, Allen may go to spend he s career here, captain etcetera in which case he would be a snip or may get sold I’m the summer in which case he would not.
I can understand frustrations but it has to be recognised that th club as a whole is going through a tough time and as fans this is where w stand up! Piece of piss to go on about how much we love the club after 2005 or a cup win etc but now is the time for real fans.
Allen reminds me of a cute little hamster in his wheel , he runs runs and runs some more but never gets anywhere or does anything , he is totally flipping useless
Never wins back possession? Never retains possession?
no timmy , your putting down people’s opinion , the ones u dont agree with . people come on here to keave an opinion not to be questioned by a halfwit like u
I’m challenging opinions vickers big difference. Why would I challenge an opinion I agree with? Personally I like to talk football and enjoy engaging with those of a different opinion. I’m not against anyone’s opinion but will question if they don’t support it in anyway and will also try and support my points.
So far vickers, you have told me to f@ck off, called me a halfwit, a troll, an attention seeker, unintelligent, totally stupid and in need of a life on this thread and yet accuse me of putting people down because I don’t agree with their opinion.
timmy -i dont come on here to ‘discuss’ with someone like u , i find ur opinions inane and idiotic , so if u dont comment on mine , i wont comment on yours
But vickers how will my life go on without you…..
Probably what’s most concerning is that BR came out beating his chest after 2 games saying he would have paid more that $15m for him…
Two points:
1, Why would you pay more than $15m for him?
2, Why would you say this as the only possible outcome is that other clubs see that and quadruple the price tag on their players as soon as Liverpool come Knocking.
This has been the case ever since the Carroll disaster.
The signing aspect is the only aspect that i’m dissapointed with in terms of BR’s first 16 games. Having said that, Both are very young, Borini has barely laid boot on turf and the team is evolving on the run. I’ll be very very glad to be prooven wrong.
When Liverpool signed BR there was an agreement between the clubs that Liverpool could buy any Swansea players for 12 months unless they reach the buy out clause on the players contract and Allen’s was $15m. I still think that’s way to much for a player of his stature and I’m glad he didn’t pay more for him with what I’ve seen so far. I hope Allen proves me wrong.
Could not buy, sorry
Good article Gabriel , well written and i think you summed Joe Allens time at Liverpool accurately , obviously he is a waste of money , and i actually think Rodgers stubborn loyalty to Allen could well be the downfall of his own Liverpool career
Rodgers has nailed his colours to the mast with Allen , and has made a huge error in judgement , i have heard from many that meglomanic is a word used to describe Rodgers – if he is , will he back down on Allen ? if he doesnt then i cant see an improvement in results coming , and his own future will be under threat
Liverpool managers have suffered in recent years with stubborn loyalty to their detriment , Evans with David James , Houillier with Diouf and Heskey , Rafa with Ngog and Insua . its looking likely Rodgers is the same with Allen
Thanks Denny, when Joe is clearly struggling it’s criminal to keep others on the bench. BR eventually benched Borini, I hope he does the same with Joe and at least that will give Joe the time to try and work out his problems on the training ground.
I remember praying that Hoollier would see sense and ditch Heskey for sake of the team ,but he never did
I feel its even more important with Allen , he is so lightweight its shocking for midfield man , we are too weak now in midfield too ever do well , its urgent Allen is replaced
Allen epitomises everything thats wrong with LFC this season
too small
too weak
too negative
remove Allen replace with say Shelvey , the whole team changes , more attacking , more strength , more goals
Allen wouldn’t even get in swansea team now , with Laudrup favouring more attacking approach , swansea certainly did well out of us
Laudrup has the right idea , keep passing but in a forward attacking way , not like rodgers sideways boring stuff
cant understand anyone defending this guy , he is not liverpool standard , he has had 22 games and that is too much for a player of his standard . did the same people defend konchesky and poulsen too ?
completely different. Poulsen and Konchesky were older and more experienced players therefore the impact they should have is needed to be seen far quicker. If you are buying a player over the age of 25 that player needs to be able to slot straight in and have an immediate impact as they should be more experienced pro’s. The younger players will often require more patience. Always always always refer to the lucas effect.
Lets support a young player instead of slagging him off
I really dont like slagging off Liverpool players . But come on , really , how many games does it take to say enough is enough ?
He contributes absolutely nothing , and before someone mentions possession – possession means nothing , its what you do with it that counts – and Allen does nothing
teams like Arsenal always dominate possession , it doesnt matter a jot , if you cant create ,score and defend
Fact is , the short passes Allen completes could be adequately done by ANY of the other midfielders at our club , and they would offer much much more in other areas too
20 odd games is way too much to give a player just not good enough , unless you are a kid where patience is neccesary , a 15m international flop does not need time , he needs the boot
what criteria do you employ to decide when enough is enough? how long did you give lucas?
contributes nothing? Has won possession for the club more times than any other player in the league.
you are right saying possession counts for nothing, its what you do with it that counts, by that is a team responsibility to utilise possession no? why criticise just allen? and its not like we dont create chances either, but thats a different argument.
If the passing that allen does can be done by anyone, why was nobody doing it before? the ability to retain possesion can allow you to dictate a match, control the tempo and alleviate pressure. Allen’s abilities are key to this, but it is only a part of what a team needs.
dont forget he is only 21/22 and zero prior experience at a club the stature of liverpool. I see on another comment you compare to Poulse, but in my mind thats irrelevant, the age and experience Poulsen brought with him dictates a more immediate impact required. Thats why the likes of henderson, lucas, allen, sterling etc should be allowed more breathing space to settle than say a downing or a cole.