Quantcast
Featured

Shoud relative achievements earn a shot at the big time?

|
Image for Shoud relative achievements earn a shot at the big time?

Liverpool managerAS sad as an omission of it is, I often enjoy reading through comments left on my pieces, agreeing with some, disagreeing with others, chuckling to myself about the trolling attempts and, where possible, entering into discussion about one of the passions of my life (although if anyone wants to talk embroidery or early Pottery Styles of the ancient Egyptians then feel free).

It was reading through comments on my last article ‘Goldfish Syndrome’ and the following quote from a comment that got me thinking:

‘It’s unbelievably naive to think that a [sic] unproven manager without any history of success will be successful.’

This really got my juices flowing and wondering whether this statement carries some logic or not. Let’s see both sides:

#showmethemedals

There will be a stage in every manager’s career where they are unproven and without that background of success – but success in itself is relevant.

If you look down the road at Alex Ferguson you can see the career progression from St Mirren to Aberdeen to United, having success relative to each club. You can argue that success at St Mirren earned him a chance at Aberdeen and success at the Dons earned him the opportunity at United, effectively using that well known saying ‘paying his dues’.

Undoubtedly a quality young manager with huge potential, but realistically would a move from St Mirren to United have been feasible? Accepted by the fans? Probably not. When you are looking at the upper echelon of clubs, there has to be that experience, that C.V.

Similarly Arsene Wenger saw success at both AS Monaco and Grampus Eight before earning his shot at Arsenal.

Whilst reality must bite for the modern-day Liverpool fan, it should not be forgotten the size and the history of the club along with the global appeal of the ‘brand’ (I felt dirty saying that, and not the good type of dirty). Would Liverpool have even considered Benitez whilst he was at Tenerife?

Personally I doubt any serious consideration would have been given. It took his tremendous success at Valencia to enter the fray. As a club, Liverpool have to be looking towards a manager who has taken the appropriate steps in their career before being awarded the Anfield hot seat. The appointment needs to be justified through previous success, through previous evidence of silverware, this club is not a stepping stone for anyone, it should be the pinnacle of a manager’s career.
[ad_pod id=”unruly-video” align=”center”]
#pastispast

This kind of statement and attitude is the epitome of what is wrong with modern football. Everything has to be instantaneous and a known name. Look at the problems at England U21 level. How has Stuart Pearce got the job other than his ‘name’, similarly with the man linked to succeed him, Southgate? Football needs to evolve and the talent available in managing and coaching should not be linked at all to a playing career.

Wenger, Mourinho and Benitez did nothing, playing wise, but look at what they have achieved.

Previous success at a playing or coaching level can often mean nothing. Shevchenko was the best forward in the world at Milan but awful at Chelsea. Scolari is a World Cup winner but struggled at Chelsea, Hodgson managed the third best international side in the world…(sorry I couldn’t bring myself to finish that one sensibly).

If we look deeper, at possibly the managerial flavour of the moment, Jurgen Klopp, and assess his track record prior to Dortmund. At Mainz, the success he achieved was no great shakes in the grand scheme of things, but for Mainz it was good – but good enough to be considered for a job like Dortmund? Especially following a relegation and failed promotion attempt?

Rather than simply dismiss the man on the basis he wasn’t a league or cup winner for example, he was awarded the opportunity based on his talent, and through an initial period of patience hasn’t that worked out well! Looking internally, what had Shankly achieved prior to Liverpool? What managerial success did Paisley, Fagan or Dalglish have prior to taking the helm?

Where do I stand (I know you have been awaiting this bit)? Whilst I don’t fall firmly in either camp, I do have a very heavy lean towards the #behave argument.

I firmly agree that Liverpool should not be a stepping stone for anyone, be it player or manager, but certainly cannot act as a wet nurse either. A glittering CV is always a pleasant thing to look at, but to judge a person merely on this is, for me, naïve and potentially very expensive. Any prospective incoming to the club, playing or not, needs to be fully assessed as to ability, personality, temperament and so on to make sure they are the right fit.

Does Rodgers lack of trophy success worry me? Not at all. I am particularly encouraged by his motivation, drive and dedication. Giving up the playing dream early because you know you will not make it would have been a bitter pill to swallow, but taking yourself round Europe to learn and watch the best and to develop your own style impresses me.

Yes, Watford and Reading didn’t go well (who has an unblemished record?) but the work he did at Swansea impressed. To date I think he has done well in trying circumstances, certainly well enough after his first year to be allowed more.

Where do you stand? Do you need the medals or do you look firmly forward? Leave a comment, let me know, come find me on Twitter @timdibs
[ad_pod id=’pubsquared’ align=’right’]
Live4Liverpool is recruiting columnists. For further info contact the site editor at live4liverpool@snack-media.com

Follow us on Twitter here: @live4Liverpool and ‘Like’ us on Facebook

Share this article

179 comments

  • Terry says:

    I also remember going to wembly and a scouser asking for his usual seat please. A ticket cost 6£ but we only earn 30£

  • Terry says:

    I also got a treasure letter from joe fagan when my son was hit buy a car.we were like a family then (the fans)

  • Terry says:

    We are still a family spread all over the world who argue a lot more i feel like grandad listening to everyone rowing! Brendan is the manager he knows the game better than any of us, we must show him respect, some of our football last year was brilliant some a pain to watch, let’s hope he has a good July and gets everyone firing ready for the start of the season.we used to say if we are within 5 points of the leaders at Christmas we will win it and we did. If we are within 5points at Christmas that will be massive progress.who knows at half time in Istanbul we didn’t have a prayer so you never know!

  • Terry says:

    So thinking positively . Brendan will get the players HE wants moyes will not continue where ferguson left off moriniho will not have had time and we will finish in top 4 YES YES YES come on you reds!!

    • Terry says:

      Realist my friend I say this in a caring way is your life running smoothly? Are you in a loving relationship, do you have a job, are you in good health, if your life is out of balance people focus on the negative things in life, are you angry at something else? I ask this kindly not sarcastic i was in a bad place once until someone helped me through,they taught me to be positive and I turned things around, if something is wrong I wish I was in liverpool to help you through, Just for the record I am not weird I’m a grandad who is loved by his family

      • realist says:

        I’m honestly as happy as a pig in s***e . The only thing bothering me is my beloved club is being f**ked by greedy incompetent americans . Not only are they here for the money ( don’t tell me you are naive enough to think otherwise) , they inflict a totally useless yes man on us . This club is deteriorating under fsg and Rodgers. Who knows what state it will be in when they go.

        You can sit around a campfire , sing kumbaya. think positively , pray…or totally fool yourself…it won’t change that fact.

        • Terry says:

          I know there here for the money, and using our fabulous club to reach that goal, but I don’t know Brendan rogers what have you seen to have that opinion, you are there and more in touch what has or hasn’t he done

          • Jon says:

            The americans understand that success = money. They are highly succesfull business men and they want to win. They have been burnt by funding kd with his disasterous signings,so naturally they have became more frugal in their spending.

          • realist says:

            Ok Jon . Yes they want success but they don’t understand football enough to realize you must pay for success.
            One hypothetical

          • realist says:

            One hypothetical question. If john henry was told he could get Liverpool into champions league every season for the cost of 100 m
            …but to challenge for league and be a real force it would take a 300m investment

            Are you really that naive to think he would choose the latter?

          • Jon says:

            The revenue generated globally from liverpool winning the league would put us in a position to bargin for better sponsorship deals. The champions league would also bring in a lot of income, so i’m sure the owners are aware of thisand will do all they can responsably. They poured alot of cash into lfc since they arrived and it didn’t go to plan so they learnt and became more cautious. If br can show them that he can buy wisely then he will be given more to gamble with,as every signing is a gamble.
            These guys are winners they have proved that with their other ventures. They may spend lots more than we expect once the window opens.

          • realist says:

            No they wont. These guys are fools when it comes to football.

  • Terry says:

    I’ve even delt with my two son in laws and four grandsons being man utd fanatics now that was hard.

    • realist says:

      Just for the record Terry. I have always been optimistic and at least hopeful about Liverpool
      Every summer I think …if we can get that player or this player then we could do well
      Every summer without fail including Souness , Kenny and I was even positive about Hodgsons season

      …and last summer , I believed the hype . I thought Mayne Rodgers must be great if Liverpool got him. Maybe he is the one.

      This Summer is the first time I have no hope. 1 I and many others can see that Rodgers is a fraud , a bullsh itter and not the man to take us forward. I realized that without doubt during the season.
      2. Fsg clearly are here to make money . They will never have us competing at the top and their current plan is idiotic

      There is no point pretending things ate going to be ok . Thats just living in denial

      • Terry says:

        Can you give me an example

        • realist says:

          Example of what ? I’ll presume you mean Rodgers incompetence

          Ok. Brief points.
          :35m wasted on total rubbish last summer
          :15m on Joe Allen particularily disgraceful
          :leaving the squad short by letting Carroll go and not getting replacement first …after saying a week before ” I would be mad to let a player like Andy go on loan”
          :no plan b.
          : lack of tactics , tactical awareness , he stands on side and makes no difference to the team. No intelligent subs etcetera
          :negative boring football while Allen was in the team
          : refusal to back down and continues to play Allen even when it’s obvious he is useless ( no coincidence we played better football and won more when Allen got injured)
          :plays Gerrard out of position all season
          : wastes Sahin by playing him out of position then lets him go
          :no defensive organization. Our excellent defenders are poor under Rodgers
          :inability to beat any top sides last season except one lucky win v spurs
          :the constant BS that flows out iof his mouth
          : the constant excuses he comes out with and lowering of standards
          :the way he is a yes man to fsg

          …I could go on and on…my fingers are tired

      • Terry says:

        Just read one of jons comments and I feel he was spot on he is looking at the bigger picture, fsg are winners in business they listened to the fans and gave them kenny now they are taking a professional approach and bringing in talent in all departments, in my view that is the way in 2013 . Nice to see you argueing your point of view. But as a old hand I am agreeing with Jon.

        • realist says:

          Fsg don’t understand football , the fact thst they hired a unproven manager who has never even won anything proves that.

          I was watching the kevin Keegan interview on LFCtv last week . When he was city boss he brought them to top 10. He said they were then at a crossroads ,thst to get top 4 a huge amount of money needed to be thrown at it. He said unequivocally it was impossible without huge investment. Everyone in the world of football seems to understand this except fsg

          Fsgs plan is ridiculous and naive and will never work especially with a useless manager . They are wasting your ,mine and everyones time .what’s more we are falling further behind the top clubs all the time. They are turning us ..scrap that…they have turned us into a mid table club. Not to mention the whole stadium nonsense.

          I won’t debate this anymore. Debating this with fans who ‘have faith’ is pointless. Faith is a impractical illogical emotion . People who have faith ignore reality and choose to believe what they want..so discussing something like this is pointless

  • Terry says:

    My two granddaughters boyfriends are chelsea and arsenal but over time they have all come to respect liverpool they all loved Istanbul it was nice to see them enthusing about my team take care!

  • Terry says:

    I’m using a phone to speak to you and have to keep going back to read your replies

  • Terry says:

    Can you give me an example

  • Terry says:

    My wife is not sure about Brendan Rodgers I put that down to women’s intuition but she is waiting to see,

  • Terry says:

    Whoever is wealthy enough to own the club will want to make money but what is it about rogers that you know or is it intuition

  • Terry says:

    Just remembered I was up at4am today early night for me tonight

  • Terry says:

    Looks like its all over on this topic, just like to say good bye to all you young fans I hope you enjoy following liverpool for the next 47 years as much as I have the last, keep the faith YNWA.

Comments are closed.