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The Carroll conundrum is finally solved

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West Ham LFCI know, yet another Andy Carroll article.

Well, hopefully we won’t need to read too many of these any longer. Liverpool FC have confirmed the sale of Andy Carroll to West Ham United for an undisclosed fee (believed to be £15.5m rising to £17.5m linked to certain targets).

Since we spent 70% of the sizeable £50m we got for Torres on the giant of a Geordie, discussion has raged as to whether he would be (or now, using the past tense, was) worth it.

Unlike the L’Oreal cosmetic beauties, Andy Carrol was not worth it.

But there are two separate questions here, which often, although understandably, get lumped into one.

1) Was Andy Carroll good enough to be a Liverpool player?

2) Was £35m too much to pay for him?

If the first had been in the affirmative, there would be less debate over the latter. You don’t hear people arguing over whether Luis Figo was worth £37m, Zidane £46m or even Ronaldo £80m (all world records at the time).

If we could afford to keep Andy Carroll on the bench as a super-sub and to start him in a few games where a big burly centre-forward might be preferable, that would be great. But apart from the money we have got for him, comes a significant reduction in the wage bill, and the fact that Carroll does, to his credit, want to play regularly.

It’s true that Brendan Rodgers hasn’t given him a run in his team, but judging by his past performances and statistics Carroll has hardly earned the right to play ahead of Suarez or Sturridge. For those who think he didn’t get a chance at Liverpool, he played 58 games and scored 11 goals (a goal every 5.3 games). Only 6 goals in 44 Premier League outings (a goal every 7.3). That is very poor.

For a striker to be worthy of playing regularly they need to be scoring a goal every two games. If they also create a lot of assists, then a goal every 3 games is a good yardstick. Mind you, Stan Collymore scored 28 goals in 64 League games, with bags of assists for Robbie Fowler, and was still considered a flop by many.
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At the pinnacle Messi scores more than a goal a game (60 goals in 50 games last season) and makes an assist roughly every 3 games (16 assists last season). In addition, and more subjectively, a striker needs to aid the overall team in other ways. Whether in regards to bringing others into play, closing down opposition teams, helping to motivate other players etc.

Andy’s statistics are too poor to be ignored. While he had a fair few substitutes appearances he started plenty of games and far too often failed to deliver. He can help hold the ball up, that’s for sure, but he can’t play quick pass and move football, he’s too slow to run in behind a defence, his only movement it seems is to lay the ball off and head to the back post, he isn’t a mobile attacker, he can’t play out wide or as a second striker (he only has one position), and he seems to be injury prone. Neither is he a youngster any more, he’s 24.

Carroll is more than just a big lump of a player who can head the ball. His left foot is very powerful and unlike other big strikers he’s a threat from outside the box with his shooting. He can pick a pass, but his range of passing is limited and it takes him too long to get the ball under control, and his body in position, to make key passes.

If Andy Carroll had come up through our academy rather than Newcastle’s we’d be happy to keep him as a potential game changing substitute but he would still not play ahead of Sturridge or Suarez as a No.9. With players as talented as Coutinho and Gerrard who can play as a No.10 and link so well with a striker and the rest of the team, even a Scouse Carroll wouldn’t get a game. Never mind that we now also have Aspas and are looking to sign Luis Alberto and Henrikh Mkhitaryan, all who can play as part of a fluid front line.

The £35m we paid for Carroll wasn’t his fault (although whether it affected him is a different matter). It was primarily the fault of Comolli and Kenny, but also FSG for not knowing enough about football at the time to help guide our transfer activity in better directions. But scoring only 11 goals in 58 appearances was Andy Carroll’s fault. And that’s not good enough for this club.

Andy seems a nice lad, and I wish him well at West Ham. With the canny Allardyce in charge they are likely to stay in the Premier League for a good few years. Carroll was eager to try again at Liverpool, if Rodgers had shown any inclination to let him, but playing regularly will allow Carroll to get into the England squad for the World Cup and I’m sure this was part of his thinking.

However, if Sturridge can stay fit and Danny Welbeck continues to develop, Carroll is also going to be just a super-sub for his national team.

Now he’s gone, I hope we don’t need to discuss him any longer. Even if he does score against us next season, as many of our former players seem to, selling Andy Carroll, in our present circumstances, was the right decision.

You can catch more from me on my own blog: http://taintlessred.blogspot.co.uk/
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Gabriel Darshan (Writer) - aka Sutha Nirmalananthan aka TaintlessRed. I am a lifelong Liverpool fan who has followed the Reds from near (e.g. living in Kirkby) and far (e.g. living in Johannesburg), though am again living back home in the UK. I’ve watched football in stadia all around the world, from the Maracana to the Camp Nou, though Anfield will of course always be the greatest! I enjoy healthy football debate, preferring reasoned analysis based on sound evidence over gossip. I also write a blog at http://taintlessred.blogspot.co.uk/ on all things Liverpool FC and you can follow me on twitter @taintlessred

29 comments

  • David Tobin says:

    This is why we continue to fall so far behind the top clubs, we consistently waste our money.

    Carroll was never worth 35m , but having paid that Rodgers should have tried to at least to utilize a good player rather than discarding him

    When will the poor decision making end ? With the dreadful signings of downing Allen and Borini we are still throwing our money away

    • wilso says:

      The fact you say borini is dreadful reflects badly on your judgement. He spent most of the season out injured. What about his performances at the u21 euros? Re your thoughts on Allen, you probably said the same about, lucas when he arrived. Allen showed enough last season to show he can be a fixture in our team moving on. Both of these are young men still – give them a chance. Glad to see brendan is able to spot a player and move others on who perhaps won’t make the grade.

      • realist says:

        Rubbish. Allen was awful all season. Borini scored 2 goals in 21 appearances . Pathetic. Stop making excuses for rubbish players. Rodgers is clueless

  • Dennis says:

    Carroll is a good player and might come back to haunt us. Deserved more time, and is way better than borini.

  • Smartt says:

    Thank God the lad is gone. Borini shd folo him, all waste of money. But stil trust in rodgers, he can kip us alive. YWNWA

  • stevieG says:

    Happy Carroll is gone , he was never good enough for LFC. Just wish 7 or 8 other muppets would follow him out the door

  • Philtheiron says:

    Carroll is a very good player! I don’t know why it didn’t work out on merseyside for him. But what is clear is the ridiculous fee paid for him affected both his form and development. What also is clear is if the club thought the same way as some fans have, ie, being condescending and looking down their noses at him it is no wonder that he never stood a chance. The whole AC saga has been pure farce from start to finish with one incredible mistake being replaced by another till everyone is too embarrassed to see the truth. By the time Brenda arrived Liverpool were in such a financial state (again! Gillette, kenny etc) that he had to sell before he could bring anybody in! Which is fair enough but he shouldn’t have used Andy Carroll as a scapegoat to hide the fact that the club were skint!

  • imoff says:

    Carroll is part of the British rubbish that is infecting the Club good bye good riddance still overrated 17.5 M

  • Jon says:

    Carrol was to slow and sluggish to defend up the top of the pitch. Br did the right thing as he didn’t set the world on fire at west ham.
    All this talk of a plan b is silly, do barca have a plan b ? Or man u ?
    The just have a great plan a

    • realist says:

      Another dumb comment. Man U don’t have plan b or c or d ? Ha ha . You haven’t a clue

  • Mic says:

    Andy Carroll didnt rise to the occasion even when we played to his strengths. So how is he going to do it when he clearly doesn’t fit. Can you imagine what he’d do with a quick one-two with Coutinho in between the lines? He’d fall on his ass. Flat….on…his ass. So we’re saving him and our club any more embarrassment. He’s gone. It didn’t pan out. Get over it.

    • TaintlessRed says:

      I agree. The remaining players, and the new attacking players due to join, can play fast one touch football and it isn’t merely that Carroll can’t, but that his presence limits the ability of others to do so. If we could afford to keep him as a super sub then great, but we can’t.

  • No sheep says:

    It is the best result for all party’s i think. I hear 15 up front with 2 million in add on’s. put that with the 1 million for the season lone. Andy get to try and rebuild his career and fat Sam gets his version of messi.

  • EF says:

    why would a club regret buying a quality striker and International? The regret they should have is that our manager is incapable of making this player even better and never even gave him a chance. They should also regret throwing away £20 million and letting West Ham get a top player at an exceptional price – again ll because of the incompetence of our current manager.

    We need to see how this £15m is going to be invested along with how much of their own cash FSG are going to put in this summer. HUGE expectations on the club this summer to deliver the big trophies next season, including the Premiership. The best teams in the country win the Premiership, that was FSG’s objective.

    • stevieG says:

      Look while I agree that Rodgers is incompetent. This is one thing I don’t blame Rodgers for. Carroll is never a top 4 club player ….never. Total waste of our money

    • No sheep says:

      Heskey was a quality international striker as well. Maybe we should go for him. Paying 35 mill for a player does not mean he is worth 35 mill. What would you say is carroll’s value?
      At 24, 9 England caps and 2 goals is not quality by a long way. Your just using any angle you can to have a go at Rodgers.

      • realist says:

        Stupid comment as usual. Little boy no sheep doesnt realize heskey has retired.

    • TaintlessRed says:

      Nothing to do with Rodgers. Carroll was awful under Kenny, mixed at West Ham all br it with a good end to the season in a team that 100% plays to his strengths. You can blame Carroll, Comolli, FSG & Kenny but not Rodgers.

  • Ibrahim says:

    A top 4 is what we want to be at the very least, Carroll was never a top 4 team player. He is at best is an option that better won’t having but not for 35mil on 90k a week.

  • Ben says:

    Never worth the money. I actually think we got a fair price from hammers

    Good luck to Andy . He never moaned or criticized Liverpool.

  • Geoff says:

    Hooray. 1 piece of deadwood gone .
    Now for the rest of the deadwood
    – Allen
    – Jones
    – Downing
    – Assaidi
    – Borini
    – Shelvey

    If we can get rid of all that we will be in a better place

    • jgaray says:

      Deadwood is harsh.

      – Allen – played hurt and did well the first few months before the injury took its toll. When I played with the similar injury, it was like playing like you had the flu, but the flu was concentrated right in your shoulder. I had worse injuries to my knee, but playing with a bad shoulder is tough.

      – Jones – He is not world class and he is not champions league GK. He is an experienced GK to plug the hole for a short period of time and he fills that role on average.

      – Downing – It would be deadwood if he was on the bench, but he wasn’t. The writing is on the wall for him, unless the competition raises his game to a whole new level. He has 1 year under his belt with BR, advantage Downing. I would like him to move on and maybe get 6-8M with a payoff.

      Assaidi – Deadwood? Mixed emotions here. You see his potential…..if he was about 19-21 years old. However he is 24 yrs old (which is still young) and he still has plenty of value. Maybe his game might rise in July/August, but he is going out the door. He looks perfect for the Ligue 1 and Serie A.

      Borini – Injured. I like him because he poaches around the 6 yard box, he makes runs into the box, he doesn’t give up on his runs, he makes smart runs and he knows what BR wants on the pitch. Terrible first year, but it would be dumb to give up on him right now.

      Shelvey – Loved this guy a couple of years ago. Especially the Arsenal game in which we drew in the 97th minute. He has had opportunities, but I think he will really shine once he moves on to a different club. Definitely worth 7-9M and not because he is British. The boy has talent.

  • Brigadier says:

    Its damning that Rodgers couldnt be bothered to coach the lad and try and improve him but he wants to stubbornly continue with Allen, Borini to justify his purchases. Carroll will probably batter us home and away next season and celebrate in front of Brenda, i wont blame him.

    • jgaray says:

      It’s not that he couldn’t bother, Carroll is not the right fit. Slow muscle fiber type body. He is a big ship that needs a couple of seconds to get going before he hits his stride. He can’t stop on a dime and move again quickly (Pass and move). It’s quite possible BR might have him chase the ball and play triangle games for the first 15 minutes to prove point. Another point that doesn’t lie are the %’s without Carroll. We won 5% more games, we drew 8% better than last year and we lost 11% less games. We scored 24 more goals without him and ranked 4th in the league. We also finished with 12 more points without Carroll. Another thing to consider is that when Carroll gets hurt, he is usually out a few games. When he comes back from being hurt, it takes him a few games to regain form. Overall though, Carroll is a descent guy and all the best to him accept when he plays LFC.

      • TaintlessRed says:

        Well said, jgaray. Every movement he makes he does as if suspended in water and he’s fighting against the fluid slowing him down. £15m + 2 is a really good price and we’re fortunate that allardyce is back in the Premier League as no other manager would pay so much.

        • jgaray says:

          15M + 2 (add ons) + 3M (loan fee) + 3M (salary for the season)= 23M. Plus a couple of million quid for any victories that he was part of that kept the teams behind us, behind us. West Brom, Stoke. I know, that was a stretch. When looking at it in a different light, a 12M loss is acceptable.

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