With Charlie Adam signed, Liverpool’s next high profile target is Stewart Downing. The England winger has made no secret of his desire to leave Aston Villa this summer and is expected to force a transfer by handing in a transfer request if Liverpool’s advances continue to be knocked back. The proposed transfer has been met online by a group of whingeing Liverpool fans, many crying ’sign Mata, sign Mata’ or alternately stating that Downing is average at best, or simply not good enough. Such comments display the naïveté of some fans in terms of how they perceive the modern game.
What seems to escape the attention of these fans is that in January of this year Liverpool paid a club record £35m to sign Andy Carroll. Call me crazy but I believe this would suggest that Andy is seen as a key first team player for next season. One only need look at Liverpool’s last two games of last season, when Carroll, despite clearly not being fit, was chosen to play alongside Suarez as a striker ahead of the in-form Dirk Kuyt. Carroll is seen as first choice. As such Dalglish will be looking to construct a side to get the best from his £35m man.
To think that Kenny Dalglish gave the go-ahead on signing Carroll for £35m without realising that he needs good service borders on insulting the King’s knowledge of the game. We all know Andy’s main strengths, he has great physical presence and colossal heading ability. He gets less praise for his ability to pick a pass and he also has a decent touch, impressive attributes for such a big man. Carroll also has a ferocious shot, it is clear to see why, in this department, parallels with Alan Shearer have been drawn.
Carroll however, also has weaknesses. He could do with working on his ball retention and hold-up play, as he is often clumsy or wasteful when playing a simple pass. Also, for a man who to look at, appears at a glance to be something of a beast – Carroll could also improve on his strength.
Upon his signing I had noticed in his medical photos that his upper-body could do with a lot of work, he did not cut the figure of a toned, conditioned and muscular modern pro, but then he did have a reputation. Carroll is also not the quickest, which diminishes our ability to thread through-balls to Carroll as a viable, steady supply-source of goal-scoring chances.
This is precisely the problem in the debate over Mata that so many fans seem to miss. Liverpool need someone who can deliver a cross. This is not Mata’s style. He is a great little player but a gamble in terms of getting the best from Carroll. Mata is a typical Spanish schemer, playing in a floating role on the left, looking to playing quick one-twos, or to pick an incisive through ball. Mata plays most of his football in a more central area of the pitch, drifting in on the left side of a front three. The same people who clamour for Mata would also likely state that Liverpool need width. Mata would simply not provide the desired width we need.
Whilst the thought of Mata and Suarez linking up on the left, playing intricate, incisive football on the deck is great in theory, such a system would not suit big Andy, who thrives on good crosses (or indeed even average ones. Man City anyone?). Make no mistake – next season we will be looking to get crosses to him. Whilst Mata does not provide traditional, touchline-hugging, by-line-driving width, Downing certainly does.
It is the width offered by Stewart Downing which puts him ahead of Mata as a priority signing for Liverpool. The left-footer whipped in more crosses in open play than any player in the Premier League last season, 135 in total. According to Opta stats, this is more than any other player has accumulated in a season in the last three campaigns. Very impressive. We are all aware too that Downing is not overly elaborate and could hardly be described as a ‘flair’ player, but then the same can be said for the likes of Antonio Valencia at Man Utd, who was widely praised for his simplicity on the ball at the tail end of last season (rightly so in my opinion, he rarely loses the ball).
Downing is not a ‘one-trick pony’ as many lazily suggest – some, with dreams of comedy superstardom have described him as a ‘no-trick pony’. Again, this is lazy – if not just downright idiotic. As we can see, Downing’s main ‘trick’ is offering width and providing crosses, but he is also capable of scoring goals as well as creating them (as we found out to our detriment) – eight in total last season. Downing can also pick a pass as well as deliver crosses. Strikers with pace, such as Gabriel Agbonlahor, and more recently Darren Bent have both benefited from Downing’s ability to split a defence over the last few years. Were it not for Bent’s famed profligacy in front of goal, and inability to stay onside, Downing may have claimed many more than the nine assists he contributed last season.
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Totally agree with the article. We do NOT need Mata……Bring in Downing and give us some genuine width.
We need players who faced with an opponent in a wide position can take on that opponent and beat them Downing can’t do this because he lacks the dribbling skill and pace to beat top quality rightbacks/ leftbacks hence why most fans do not want him! in a 4-3-3 system we want someone of Suarez’s quality on the other side or we might as well stick with Maxi and Kuyt in this system it doesn’t matter if the wingforwards come in side on occasions if your leftback and rightback get forward to give you width aswell so we want Mata lol!
Well there is plenty of good young left sided wingers out there 20 million for a player of Downings pedigree is ludicrous.
Metro.co.uk are claiming Villa want £25M for Downing, now that over £10M too much as inconsistant as he is.
Downing is the best left winger in the league, there is no need to say anymore. All the ignorant little kids out there need to shut the f up and quit whining about frickin Mata, “letz get mattaaaa downing iz average, mattaaa haz a cooll name downing is boring”. Stfu and watch some football. Mata isn’t a natural winger, he’s a Silva clone and guess what Downing outperformed Silva whilst playing in a POOR team. Imagine what he can do here!
Mata is a full player, Downing is an average over rated player. we need players like adam johnson, mata and augero.
Wtf is a “full player”? Downing was the best left winger in the Premierleague last season, beat the likes of Silva and JOHNSON whilst playing in a much poorer team. Downing > Johnson.
Partly because Bale was injured half of the season, big deal anyway, one good season, Mata’s been world class for sometime now, broke through the Spain team which is a hard job to do, just look at the bench, he won the WC n now u21 Championships made England look average at best……YNWA
Adam Johnson is worth more then Downing and is potentially way better
I’m sorry but anyone can put an argument across based on their opinion, If Downing’s crosses and input was so great then why did Villa finish where they did? Young was £16 million and Villa rate Downing better than Young? No way, they are taking advantage!!! You can get stats for kyut but as you so rightly pointed out…they mean nothing.. cause Kenny put in Carroll, who came from Newcastle so we really should be looking at their stats as the reason we bought him was because of how he played at Newcastle, trust me Carroll is not good enough to build a team around, regardless of how much he cost. In fact £35 million…our bad!! Mata is simply better than Downing, more exciting, younger and with more “already” in his locker. The boy will be fantastic….and for the next 10 years!! I don’t care about crosses and what you believe KK to be thinking, it’s all irrelevant cause Downing is not worth £18 million, we will not get our money back and Mata is!! The game of football has changed and if we are to look at what’s winning and what’s losing then shouldn’t we be looking at Spain? Fast, precise football, patient build up etc instead of lumping it in the box hoping our 35million man is taller than everyone else and can head it in. Even if we do get Downing and not Mata then I guarantee you, here and now, that Suarez will score more goals than Carroll next season….and I guarantee you that it would’ve been more if we’d bought instead of Downing.
Suarez scoring and assisting more then Carroll is a given FACT anyway, Carroll’s not a 20 goal season kind of player 10-15 i expect him scoring, Suarez alot more. Mata’s the complete player, i totally agree Mata is more suited to our pass n move way then Downing is, hes more pass n hoof the ball up.
1 point on Young he had 1 year remaining on his contract that’s why he only went for what he did
‘I guarantee you, here and now’ Who do you think you are?!! Nobody can guarantee something that is out of their controll and has not happened. As you said yourself ‘anyone can put an argument across based on their opinion’ So yours isn’t an opinion, cop on to yourself!!!
“more exciting, younger and with more “already” in his locker”….very strong argument you’ve put forth….NOT. Please explain your argument in terms of footballing strategy and tactics.
Perfect, perfect article. Mata is a great player but we need someone like Downing. I would prefer Adam Johnson myself (I wanted Rafa to sign him a couple of years back but he dithered with the likes of Riera, Gonzalez and Jovanovic) but even Man City aren’t that stupid. I honestly cannot think of another old fashioned width providing winger in Europe that is available for under £20M. Unless you want David Bentley or Jermaine Pennant of course.
Agree 100% with ya
from a villa fan. If DENE believes that downing is wide of the mark when valued at 25m, you could say that torres who was off form was playing poorly and seemed to be INCOSISTENT was sold for 50m im sorry but like you we will refuse any bids lower than the clubs valuation of one of our biggest assets. yes young was sold for 16m but for a player who had no desire to stick with villa, wanted the dream move for the excellence in top flight and with a year on his contract we were forced to agree to the terms set by united, im sure you can agree than the fee payed was well wide of his actual valuation but the only way the two parties could get a win in both was to agree to the terms of united. so that in mind downing is a quality player he has the pace to make left backs and right backs feel vunrable just like the game at villa park your defence was hesitant downing found a gap and took it with both hands, he is consistent his goal and assit ratio proves that, compared to the quality of winger you want like us your club just isnt big enough at the moment to attract those sort of players, but i believe get a winger like downing to get you into the top4 next year then replace him with a world class winger. Downing next year if you do buy him will be a squad player and i guess he knows that.
Completely agree with Steffan here.
Downing is worth as much as another team is willing to pay for him simple as. Villa aren’t going to go soft on his price and they have far more power in the transfer than they did with Young as Downing has 2 years left on his contract not 1. They have every right to hold on to him for the best deal possible for them.
Some Liverpool fans (and I’m one) need to get over the sums being touted. If they pay 20M for Downing its because Kenny, Damien and co have done a thorough analysis of the next 3 season’s needs, taking into account every value-added stat on the player and those he’ll be playing with plus Kenny’s simple gut-feel for is needed and what will work.
They would’nt be paying 20M essentially for Downing, they’d be paying 20M for an essential part of the new Liverpool puzzle.
If Downing does arrive on what people are saying is a ludicrous amount of money and they then go one to secure a Champions League spot next season (which is worth up to 60M) I’m sure they’ll be no one complaining then.
Mata’s a great player no doubt, but his skill set is not what Liverpool need…they need a Downing (IMO). Why pay good money for a piece of the puzzle that doesn’t fit?
Well put. I am a bit apprehensive of the price though. Downing is quality and provides what we need. Suarez provides us with every thing Mata does in a better way. There are doubts over Mata’s ability to cope with the physicality of the Prem. Downing will not need much time to bed in. We need to hit the ground running this season.
Don’t make excuses for Mata non of you know if he would cope in the prem or not. Silva is similar size and hes done well and didn’t need time before he showed his quality, Torres hit the ground running as did Suarez, so don’t make pathetic excuses for a player coz we don’t know.
How sure are you Downing will settle in straight away? Crouch didn’t hit the ground running, Bellamy, Pennant etc and they haD PL experience. Players like Downing, Adam, Henderson and the rest that come in will need to wisen up that they won’t be playing every single match that they’ve been use toO for so long, they’re at a big club and they will be fighting for a place in KK’s side and work hard to keep they’re places……YNWA
Silva took half a season to settle in at City. He looked terribly off the pace in the beginning. I’m not saying Mata won’t settle in but this is one season where we can’t take the risk of buying a player who may or may not hack it for us.
Torres was a special case. Our entire team was set up in a style conducive to his playing style. Rafa knew how to use him, Roy and Ancelotti didn’t/ plus Torres was a c*nt of a player last season.
Suarez is a different case altogether. He had excelled at every level before he joined us. He has the mentality and playing style to survive in any league. I don’t need to elaborate on him. He’s a world class talent who’d make it in the first XI of almost any side.
Crouch has always been a hit and miss player, Bellamy was ok and Pennant had the Ryan Babel syndrome. All the aforementioned joined the club with off field baggage aswell.
Downing is a different case. With him we know what we’ll get. He is a player appreciated by all managers he has played under. He is a low risk option for us and of the right age to slowly bring in Sterling into the first 11.
Regarding starting every game, only Reina will enjoy that privilege in my opinion.
I totally agree with this one,,, it is true that we really need an out and out winger who could hug both touchlines,, and is a good crosser of the ball,not someone who’d cut in a lot, thats where I’d leave the option of signing Juan Mata..
Remember that Suarez does this cutting in from flank job superbly, if needed,, but I am not sure whether Downing at the price mooted on him, is the perfect solution though. I’d rather have Nzogbia or Bastos (both LWB n LW) or Hazard (very difficult), Or Cazrola,,I think Kenny is trying to bring in ‘the Barnes’ mould player, no doubt,,,
I really do think Kenny is the master,, and he could produce best out of Downing but prizewise too costly, YNWA
Downing at 18/20m is financial madness. As for crosses, we have been doing that through our full backs. This obsession with wingers is bandwagon stuff. Tell me how many wingers do the best team in the world [Barca] play with? We have been crying for pace and trickery to beat subborn defenses in the premiership. When the time comes, parochial minded writers start talking of British or English instead of pure quality. If Suarez gets injured, who can play his role instead? Mata is the closest. I am very afraid this approach of wingers for Caroll will leave most of our players playing high long balls all match [Sam Allrdyce style]. It is not the “the naïveté of some fans” that is worrying, it is authors like this who are asking the manager to waste 20m on a slow coach crosser! If Downing is meant for Corroll, will he sit on the bench if Carroll goes missing for 3 months like last year and wait for him to recover?
Thanks for the comments. I had to get back to you Kaleem.
Whilst our fullbacks last season were our main source of quality crosses, particularly Glen Johnson and Martin Kelly (Aurelio when fit) – they did not provide enough. This was not the fault of the fullbacks – but was largely due to the inability of the players we have in midfield to cross a ball or provide width (Cole, Kuyt, Maxi etc).
I’m not English or British and I do not have an agenda regarding the buying of English or British players. Neither Carroll or Henderson would have been my choice of signing, but they are at Liverpool now, and are seen as key players by Kenny Dalglish. As such, we need players to fit into the team we have, not the team that we wish we had.
If Suarez was injured he would be replaced by a striker, not Mata. I do agree that we need a quality backup to Suarez as this is a problem, but it would be a striker brought in for this role, not Mata.
I agree we need more pace and trickery in the side and in reserve, perhaps whichever new striker is brought in will provide options in this regard. I’d like to see a quality right-winger brought in too, with pace if possible. If not, what about Glen Johnson with Martin Kelly at right-back? If a new left-back is brought in (which is expected), such a scenario is plausable.
When it comes to trickery, the likes of Pacheco and Morgan coming through up-front – and Suso, Ince and Sterling on the flanks bodes well for the future, but not just yet.
I also feel that by having Downing in the side we will reduce our tendency to hit long balls, rather than increase it as you suggest. The width provided by Downing would ensure that our full backs have the options to play the ball wide or into central areas when going forward.
Our fullbacks will be looking to play the ball to Downing as he can deliver quality crosses and provide a threat, rather than bypassing the flanks due to moves constantly breaking down there through Cole, Kuyt, Maxi etc. Width also creates more space centrally – stretching the opposition’s defensive shape. (Whether Carragher can resist lumping the ball however, is another matter)
I am not asking the manager to spend £20m on Downing either – it seems he is pondering doing so all by himself. Added to that, Downing is not a ‘slow-coach crosser’. He is not slow – this is another misconception. He may not have the pace of Walcott (few have), but it’s hard to think of a better left-footed left-winger who has more pace, is available, and has a quality delivery. (Bastos seems the best option suggested by posters, I don’t think I’ve seen Cazorla in action to comment, sorry!).
For this reason I’m not surprised that Arsenal are also interested in Downing, but I think Mata would better suit Arsenal’s style of football.
Lastly – If Carroll is injured, Downing will most likely provide ammo for whoever is playing. Most likely Suarez and Kuyt. We can still pass and move with wingers – we always did, as is pointed out by other comments.
On the pricetag. He cost Villa £12m and is now an England squad regular, and Villa’s player of the year, he also has two years left on his contract. A fee of £15-18m seems fair enough. If we get him for £18m i’d be happy.
If Downing signs, I hope he can be quality, he’ll have a big point to prove – Liverpool is a big, big pond – a tough crowd to impress! I hope Andy is banging them in next year with a better quality of service provided for him. With Suarez upfront, a Liverpool 4-4-2 will certainly never look static! We could be a real quality side with a few more additions. If he gets us back in the bigtime for 12/13 – it’ll be money well spent!
It’s easy to get my goat Kaleem! Parochial preaching about signing British players!!! Thats really not me! You provoked me into a lengthy response though…… I’d better go do some work now, lol!
(I’m only kidding m8, cheers for the post – we both fear Allardyce/Hodgson football! I’d say we’d agree on most things.)
Cheers for all the comments folks, whether you agree or disagree. It’s only a good debate because we all care. If we all agreed all the time, then we’d have nothing to talk about!
Props on the article Barry. Should post this on other threads just to bang some sense into the Downing naysayers. In addition to providing width, stretching defenders and lumping accurate crosses, Downing’s ability to play left, right and centre will also give us a lot of variety and formational flexibility. His good awareness of teammates and intelligent link up play is a feature that is often overlooked by people. Mata doesn’t cut solely as a winger for me. He is more of a Podolski time player.Would love it if we could sign them both though. Would leave teams guessing all season long.
Thanks Pedro. I’d love both of them too, It would give us great options. I’m just desperate for some natural left-sided options, it’s been too long. I do think Mata is a fine player.
On a more serious note, it’s a just a damned shame you signed a 1 year extension on your deal at Barca yesterday. I could have tolerated you playing down the right for us, I didn’t even know you cared so much for the future of LFC! I also wanted an inside view from the Camp Nou (poetic eh!). I heard that Messi models his game on a blend of his modern day hero Stuart Downing…..and his hero as a child, Mark Walters. Is this true?
Feel free to post my stories anywhere you want…. even in a ‘look at this fool’ sort of way. lol. Take care m8. YNWA.
OOOHH…we have a comedian in the house. Unfortunately, I’m not the Catalan Pedro who plays for FC Barcelona. I’m the half Madridista-half Scouser Pedro. If you are looking for inside info on FC Barcelona, you are barking up the wrong tree.
lol. I’m not too shocked to hear that. Good man Pedro.
Agree with all of this (blog, not all comments). And Pacheco is the new Mata anyway. And Suso is the new Pacheco. But Downing is the new someone we don’t have at the mo, so we need him.
Pacheco the new Mata is that why the poor lad is rotting in the reserves or out on loan?????????? Suso is a striker
I’ld have to disagree with u dere mate… Suso is an attacking midfielder (CAM). thats his natural position
I think the argument is that players like Nzogbia, Mata and Cazorla tend to cut in and rarely provide real width. We have a real weapon in Andy Carroll that should be utilised. Just like John Toshack was utilised with Ian Callaghan and Stevie Heighway.
The fact is that you’ll be hard pressed to find another touchline-hugging, accurate-crossing, goal-scoring winger for under £20M throughout Europe. All the other ‘instead ofs’ play no wider than Dirk Kuyt or Yossi Benayoun and isn’t that exactly what we wanted to get away from? The guy does the business at Premier League level. The other effective traditional wingers are Giggs, Valencia, Young (sometimes), Bale and Johnson. Even Malouda tends to cut in a fair bit.
He’s created or scored goals against Chelsea, Man Utd and us this year. It’s not a cool, glamour buy, but when measured against what we have, what we need and what is out there it makes perfect sense.
Wouldn’t it be great if we had the money to buy bith players, that would shut us all up and raise our expectations on this season even more. Who knows selling Meireles maybe lowering Aquilani’s price a little may just get us both……YNWA
Get ready for a war Manure scum the sleeping giants are slowly awakening from their slumber!!
I don’t understand all the hype for Mata, he isn’t even a winger. Downing is direct, pacy, 2 footed, excellent delivery, scores goals etc. Mata is an AM or a free roaming player and he wouldn’t cut it on the wings because he doesn’t have the pace to beat defenders, he uses his trickery to do that, then cuts in and shoots whereas Downing runs at defenders and puts balls into the box.
shows what you know then, hasn’t got pace to beat players?????? you sure about that he showed our Eng u21 a thing or 2 and the past few seasons at Valencia hes ran teams ragged, hes more highly sought after and rated in world football then Downing
I never said he isn’t highly rated. I said he doesn’t have that direct pace to beat players. He is more about guile and agility, turning past players and tricking them. He’s not a out and out winger.
Completley agree a lot of the fans who keep saying sign Mata, I wonder how much they have watched him maybe they just want a big name, I know a few Villa fans and they have said Downing is a top quality players and stats do matter they do not come out of nothing Kuyt and Downing may not have as much pace or tricks as say Bale and Lennon for example but they still score more goals and provide more assists. Ideally I would like to see Liverpool sign Downing and someone like a Lennon or Walcott as a player with blistering pace would just make our attack that much more dynamic but Downing will be a great signing if we land him and I think he will have a bigger impact than Henderson or Adam.
COMPLETELY overlooking the fact this past season downing played on the right WHERE HE CUT IN and in central areas for villa because he sucked of the left.
That’s why he got player of the season he was great but NOT as an out and out left winger, providing “natural width”. So essentially we want to put him back on the left where didn’t do so well.
Also he doesn’t beat players often with pace and dribbling skill he either latches on to a throughball or puts in an early cross. He does get to the byline but nowhere near as much as being emphasised here.
I also don’t understand why it’s only downing and mata are there no other wingers out there?
it should be Mata or Adam Johnson not Downing
WTF is all this love about Adam Johnson!? YES, he is a good player but he isn’t better than DOWNING, yet. At Middleborough he was 2nd fiddle to Downing and hardly got any games, Downing was performing there every season finishing in the top 10 in the assists rankings in the Premierleague in most seasons! Middleborough were a 1 man team back then with Downing the same way Wigan are with N’Zogbia. Also, Downing moved to Villa )the better team at the time) for 12m with a broken foot whilst Johnson went to City for 6m, half the price, fully fit and MUCH younger. DOWNING > JOHNSON, FACT. Johnson has yet to outperform Downing!
That’s not quite true though is? He alternated with Albrighton but on the positive side showed that he can cross with his right. Another positive in my book. This video of his goals and assists this season suggest that he’s very comfortable crossing with both feet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s38jnV1FyKo
Apparently he gets in more crosses than anyone else in the Premiership. I don’t care if he dribbles one person or five as long as that ball comes in on big Andy’s head it’s a potent option and one that we should welcome.
Everyones going on about Andy’s heading ability, what about Kuyt’s he’s probably our best player in the air, then Kyrgiakos lol and who says Carroll will play week in week out even if we did pay £35 mill for him. The way we played with him at the end of last season simply put as crap, we just hoofd the ball up to him everytime……YNWA
And you are COMPLETELY overlooking that Downing has played left wing for the majority of his career and been very good there, at Middlesborough too. And no, he didn’t suck on the left, just Houllier prefers to play his wingers like that where they cut in. He was brilliant on the left at the end of 09/10 and early 10/11, he did play quite a few games on the left this past season so stfu you ignorant child.
Get your head out of your arse, Downing is not world class nor will he ever be enough said. When his 2 seasons at LFC come to an end coz that’s all hes going to get, do you think we will get 20 mill??
i wouldnt have neither, mata may struggle and i dont think he is all that from what i have seen.
enough has been said about downing, hes a boring player, we want another impact player like suarez, someone who will run and graft
besides i think we will be playing a lot through the centre with a 3 man midfield using johnson and a lb as wing backs
No doubt that Downing is good, but not worth more than £17mil.
Every top team has speedy wingers, but what we are lacking now is speed, besides Suarez & Glen Johnson, we didn’t have player with speed, Downing can’t give speed to us whereas Mata, Adam Johnson, Lennon can, with Mata is being more all-rounded when comparing with Johnson & Lennon.
If we can get Mata within £30mil, get him, he will inflat to more than this price within few seasons. In contrast, Downing hasn’t much space to improve, he has given his best last season, his value is more likely to depreciate with time, we can get him next season with a much lower price.
Downing is pacier than Mata.
What a load of nonsense. All it says really is that the team will play the ball to Carroll no matter what. Free kicks? To Carroll! Corners? To Carroll! And now we need a winger who can deliver a cross. Yes you guessed it – to Carroll.
It will be like watching Norway from a some years back. When Egil Drillo was manager. All they did was kick the ball into the box to Tore Andre Flo because he supposedly was good in the air.
And furthermore. Downing doesn’t fit the bill when LFC talk about signing young players. 27 is not very young when talking footballers.
Just like the games Carroll played for us last season, everytime we had the ball it was lumped up to him
Adam Johnson is obviously more excitin but am sure am not the only one who has noticed that the guy hardly crosses the ball. he is always lookin to cut-in 9 out of 10 times and even when he decides to cross, its ‘always a low cross’.
Also, he drifts in and out of games and is always waitin for the ball (very lazy player).
Even if we go after him, i doubt City will sell him. rmber they dont need our money